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An assortment of accoutrements and accessories

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The Armourer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2020 at 4:14am
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

I had to laugh when I saw the saw tool; because last week while in a DIY/Gardening shop; they had a promotional video selling the "latest" gadget for cutting branches.
You guessed it; a hand held chain link saw. A total rip-off of the WWI type.
Best bit of the video was the women stnding under the branch she's cutting; unfortunately the filem cut's to another shot before she saw's through it completely and ends up wearing the branch!
Must say it makes more sense using it with two people.


But ……….. Men were men in WW1.


There is a modern 'survival saw' which is on a similar principle and sold on Ebay for around GBP £1
I keep one in my rucksack when hiking.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2020 at 7:00am
There's several versions including one in a cylindrical "tin".
I've found the toothed ones to be much better, if heavier, that the chain/wire type.
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/262026258627-0-1/s-l1000.jpg
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2020 at 7:33am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

There's several versions including one in a cylindrical "tin".
I've found the toothed ones to be much better, if heavier, that the chain/wire type.


Yes - I've seen those and I'm sure they are more efficient, but at 20 grams (2/3 of an ounce) for the 'wire' type and the only very infrequent use for preparing a bit of fire wood if I run out of gas for cooking, I think I'll keep going with the 'cheap and light weight' one (It does cut both live & dry wood well enough)

If I was a 'prepper' and looking at long term survival tool then a 'chain' type would be much better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stumpkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2020 at 7:38am
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:




There is a modern 'survival saw' which is on a similar principle and sold on Ebay for around GBP £1
I keep one in my rucksack when hiking.




I have a couple of those.  Actually very handy.  The scary thing is that originally they were called a Gigli Saw and used for bone cutting by surgeons. 
Charlie P.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2020 at 7:41am
Originally posted by Stumpkiller Stumpkiller wrote:

Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:




There is a modern 'survival saw' which is on a similar principle and sold on Ebay for around GBP £1
I keep one in my rucksack when hiking.




I have a couple of those.  Actually very handy.  The scary thing is that originally they were called a Gigli Saw and used for bone cutting by surgeons. 


Do you think that's why in the first 'cartoon' application picture it shows a guy with 3 hands trying to remove one of them ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Stumpkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2020 at 9:47am
LOL


Back from when Zaphod Beeblebrox was a hand model.






Fair use, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?curid=1891781
Charlie P.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whitjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2020 at 5:36pm
so many unique items.   What is the gadget in the 18th-19th photo?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2020 at 5:39pm
Wire cutters
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stumpkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2020 at 5:47pm
I understand that they worked well "in rehearsal" but failed when they first encountered hardened German barbed wire; especially if the wire wasn't held firmly in place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2020 at 12:44am

What is the gadget in the 18th-19th photo?


How it works :

The No.1 Mk.1 wire cutter was introduced in 1916. It could be attached to Lee Enfield, Ross and P 17 rifles. The jaws close when the rifle is thrust forward and lifted against the wire. The mechanism is spring-loaded to return the jaws to the open position when tension is released.

Apparently this type of cutter was ineffective unless the wire was tight, and wouldn't cut the hardened steel German wire. Most of them were discarded in favour of hand-held cutters.

In 1917 the No.1 Mk.11 cutter was introduced. It has 3 rivets along the longer horn, rather than the 2 rivets of the Mk.1

There is a difference between "WIRE BREAKERS" and "WIRE CUTTERS"

Wire breakers were attached to the bayonet and trapped the wire at the muzzle which was then broken by firing the rifle, the bullet cutting the wire.

Wire cutters broke the wire by mechanical means after it was trapped in the jaws of the cutter.

The various contracts were supplied by :

C.H.Pugh Ltd, Whitworth Works, Tilton Road, Birmingham
Teleg: Accuracy, Birmingham.
Tel: Victoria 161

Rifle SMLE Mark.III, Cutters, Wire: 5,500 ordered under contract 94/C/1667 dated 11 May 1916 - Completed
Rifle SMLE Mark.III, Cutters, Wire: 39,300 ordered under contract 94/C/1667 dated 11 May 1916 - Completed
Cutters, Wire, S.A.No.1 Mark I: 60,000 ordered under contract 94/C/2849 dated 28 August 1916 - Completed
Cutters, Wire, S.A.No.1 Mark II: 50,000 ordered under contract 94/C/4625 dated 7 March 1917 - ongoing
BREAKERS, Wire, S.A.No.1 Mark I: 15,000 ordered under contract 94/B/2997 dated 21 October 1917 - Completed
BREAKERS, Wire, S.A.No.1 Mark I: Continuation ordered under contract 94/B/3486 dated 4 December 1916 - 2,000 per week.


Various "Numbers & Marks" ...…...…..

Cutters, Wire, S.A., No.1 Mark I fitted the SMLE and P.'14 rifles,

Cutters, Wire, S.A., No.2 Mark I fitted the Ross Mark III

Cutters, Wire, S.A., No.3 Mark I fitted the Ross Mark IIIB (the British contract model)

All were introduced by List of Changes Paragraph 17,751 dated February 1916. These all pointed up and back when fitted to the rifle. The wire was hooked in the jaws and the rifle pulled sharply backwards to operated the spring mechanism and cut the wire.


Cutters, Wire, S.A., No.1 Mark II fitted the SMLE,

Cutters, Wire, S.A., No.4 Mark I fitted the Pattern '14,

These were introduced in LoC Para. 18,516 dated January 1917 and differed from the previous patterns in that they pointed forward, had longer horns and were operated by pushing forward against the wire. There was no corresponding pattern for the Ross as it had been withdrawn from front line service by then.

It was designed such that the wire ran along the top of the sword bayonet and entered the jaws of the cutter, rotated it and cut the wire




















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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2020 at 1:04am
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:


What is the gadget in the 18th-19th photo?


How it works : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm85vPD-Rg0

One for sale ? (it is actually shown mounted the 'wrong way up')

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-british-wwi-1917-smle-wire-cutter-no-i-mkiii-by-decimals-ltd?variant=26169032517




The No.1 Mk.1 wire cutter was introduced in 1916. It could be attached to Lee Enfield, Ross and P 17 rifles. The jaws close when the rifle is thrust forward and lifted against the wire. The mechanism is spring-loaded to return the jaws to the open position when tension is released.

Apparently this type of cutter was ineffective unless the wire was tight, and wouldn't cut the hardened steel German wire. Most of them were discarded in favour of hand-held cutters.

In 1917 the No.1 Mk.11 cutter was introduced. It has 3 rivets along the longer horn, rather than the 2 rivets of the Mk.1

There is a difference between "WIRE BREAKERS" and "WIRE CUTTERS"

Wire breakers were attached to the bayonet and trapped the wire at the muzzle which was then broken by firing the rifle, the bullet cutting the wire.

Wire cutters broke the wire by mechanical means after it was trapped in the jaws of the cutter.

The various contracts were supplied by :

C.H.Pugh Ltd, Whitworth Works, Tilton Road, Birmingham
Teleg: Accuracy, Birmingham.
Tel: Victoria 161

Rifle SMLE Mark.III, Cutters, Wire: 5,500 ordered under contract 94/C/1667 dated 11 May 1916 - Completed
Rifle SMLE Mark.III, Cutters, Wire: 39,300 ordered under contract 94/C/1667 dated 11 May 1916 - Completed
Cutters, Wire, S.A.No.1 Mark I: 60,000 ordered under contract 94/C/2849 dated 28 August 1916 - Completed
Cutters, Wire, S.A.No.1 Mark II: 50,000 ordered under contract 94/C/4625 dated 7 March 1917 - ongoing
BREAKERS, Wire, S.A.No.1 Mark I: 15,000 ordered under contract 94/B/2997 dated 21 October 1917 - Completed
BREAKERS, Wire, S.A.No.1 Mark I: Continuation ordered under contract 94/B/3486 dated 4 December 1916 - 2,000 per week.


Various "Numbers & Marks" ...…...…..

Cutters, Wire, S.A., No.1 Mark I fitted the SMLE and P.'14 rifles,

Cutters, Wire, S.A., No.2 Mark I fitted the Ross Mark III

Cutters, Wire, S.A., No.3 Mark I fitted the Ross Mark IIIB (the British contract model)

All were introduced by List of Changes Paragraph 17,751 dated February 1916. These all pointed up and back when fitted to the rifle. The wire was hooked in the jaws and the rifle pulled sharply backwards to operated the spring mechanism and cut the wire.


Cutters, Wire, S.A., No.1 Mark II fitted the SMLE,

Cutters, Wire, S.A., No.4 Mark I fitted the Pattern '14,

These were introduced in LoC Para. 18,516 dated January 1917 and differed from the previous patterns in that they pointed forward, had longer horns and were operated by pushing forward against the wire. There was no corresponding pattern for the Ross as it had been withdrawn from front line service by then.

It was designed such that the wire ran along the top of the sword bayonet and entered the jaws of the cutter, rotated it and cut the wire




















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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddyofurniture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2020 at 4:22am
Wow!
Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2020 at 4:27am
Great info Armorer. Thanks for posting these items.
I do have a question! Can the bayonet still be fitted with the wire cutters or Flander's flap?
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2020 at 5:02am
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

Great info Armorer. Thanks for posting these items.
I do have a question! Can the bayonet still be fitted with the wire cutters or Flander's flap?


The Wire cutter - yes. In fact it was designed so that the bayonet lifted the wire up and you pushed the rifle 'into' the wire, the wire slid along the bayonet and into the bottom jaw of the cutter.

The Flanders Flap - I have never tried with the flap 'open' it would MAYBE fit, but closed it certainly wouldn't.
I'll try and get around to trying it.

Various versions :


The 'Flanders Flap' were manufactured during 1915 by J. Purdey & Sons, A. Purdey, M. Myers & Son and Brandauer & Co.

Prices varied from 2 1/2d per 100 (or about 1p today, these were made from canvas) for 10,000 units from A. Purdey. 1/3d (6p) per 100 for 50,000 units of basic protectors from J. Purdey & Sons. The sheet metal War Office purchases were /|\ marked and bore the contractors name, these cost 10/- (50p) per 100 on 100,000 ordered from Brandauer and 8/-(40p) per 100 on 100,000 orderd from Myers.

The correct nomenclature was I believe "Protector, muzzle, No.3 MarkI



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2020 at 5:35am
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

Great info Armorer. Thanks for posting these items.
I do have a question! Can the bayonet still be fitted with the Flander's flap?


Thankyou for asking the question - I have learned something today.

Nothing much else to do so gave it a try, just goes to show it is better not to speculate (or guess).








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddyofurniture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2020 at 6:27am
Some very cool items.
Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.
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