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Another Noob Seeking Info-Photos Added in a Reply

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machodoc View Drop Down
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    Posted: November 15 2013 at 1:40am
Although I've been collecting for some time now, this is my first Enfield. I got it in a trade that I wasn't expecting to make, so didn't research it in advance. Now I'm trying to figure out what this apparent mixmaster actually is. I've spent days trying to look up what few markings are left on it, but haven't come up with much ... so it's time for this LE noob to put it before the pros.  (I've tried this in other forums with little success.)

There just aren't many marks on this rifle. The receiver ring appears to have been scrubbed, but who knows why, or by whom? There are only a few small marks on the socket. The side of the receiver and the stock have matching numbers, but I can't find a photo anywhere of a stock marked the same way. Anyone know who marked them like this? There's a painted rack number.  The bolt has Savage "square S" marks. The trigger housing has a BSA-Shirley mark. The micrometer sight has very small marks that I recognize as from the Union of South Africa. Then there are other marks that I don't recognize at all, but hope someone here will. I'm going to post as many photos as the system will permit me to, in hopes that someone has seen one like this before and can tell me what model it really is (is it marked correctly?), etc.  

[Edited Note:  Sorry the photos didn't show up in the original post.  This editor is a bit different than what I'm used to, and I thought they would post the way that I first tried.  Thanks for your patience.  I really do realize how important the photos are to a question like I'm asking.]
Old, fat, balding guy ... that narrows it down, right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lithgow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2013 at 7:05am
If its got a Savage marked bolt it will be a No4.
Pics will help with further info
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2013 at 7:53am
yup need photos of all the critical areas to help much beyond whats been offered 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote machodoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2013 at 8:37am
Sorry ... not sure why my pics didn't show up.  I tried to post several, but the format for posting here is a bit different than I'm used to.  Let's see if this works ...


Old, fat, balding guy ... that narrows it down, right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2013 at 8:44am
its a no4 rifle , the trigger guard is a BSA [M47C is their war code] , the bolt is a savage , rest im hoping someone else sees better than i do , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2013 at 10:11am
WOW! he!! of a camera! How bout that paint on the stock? That was discussed in an earlier thread..cant remember wot was said tho(I have sometimers-sometimes, I forget)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2013 at 11:10am
Your not alone, Hoadie! LOL....uh what did I just say....dang forgot again. D'oh!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 6:46am
It's a No 4 Mk 1/2 or 1/3, depending on what it started out as. The fore-end was converted to the Mk 2 pattern which means the trigger is hung from the receiver instead of the trigger guard. If the rifle was originally a Mk 1 after the upgrade it would become a Mk 1/2 and if it was originally a Mk 1* after the upgrade it would become a Mk 1/3. Good photos of both left and right side of the entire receiver would be helpful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 9:26am
how are you getting to a mk2 conversion of the mkI from these photos bear ? im not disagreeing with you , im just not seeing it , getting older and missing more these days - need to know 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote machodoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 12:10pm
Thanks - I'll post more photos soon!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 8:55pm
I'm thinking he 's looking at the rear of the forend where the riveted Mk1 tabs have been replaced with the Mk2 cross-bolt?
I'd always assumed that they'd simply put a new Mk2 stock on when doing this, but it is an Enfield after all!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 10:21pm
That was what I was looking at, Shamu. It's also why I said we needed pictures of the complete sides of the receiver. What makes me think it may be a convert is the spliced pieces on the fore-end for the transverse screw. I keep forgetting though that the Mk 2 fore-end can be put on the Mk 1. It's the other way around that won't work. So, in a nutshe!! we are back to square one for the time being.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote machodoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 10:52pm
OK .. here are some more photos, focusing on the receiver.  Summary, so far:
  • Savage bolt
  • BSA-Shirley trigger housing
  • Rack number on receiver and stock match
  • Receiver marked No 4 MK 2



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 12:48am
Where do you see the No4 Mk.2 stamp? I don't see it on any of the pictures!

I think our biggest clue might be the remains of the stamp on the Right side but-stock socket. The pic is looking down towards the trigger guard so the 3 "horseshoes" quite deeply stamped are the bottom of some kind of logo or crest. If we can figure out which one then we're getting somewhere. I was thinking maybe the bottoms of the BSA stacked rifles logo, but it doesn't quite fit.

The receiver is not a Savage, (although that doesn't help much) It has the sloping transition between vertical & horizontal on the left side wall & no lightening cut on the right side wall. Both Savage (& as far as I know unique to Savage) features.

Wild (& almost certainly wrong Confused guess.) Might the receiver be a long branch No4 Mk1? I ask because of the "grind marks" on the top of the left side receiver. Could it have been a Lease lend LB that was sanitized? There seems to be some grinding on top front of the receiver ring as well, maybe to remove S/A property "arrow in a U" stamps. We know that at least the rear sight was S/A property at some point, but we don't know if it was on this rifle at the time.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote machodoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 1:10am
In the second photo of this last series of pictures.  It's not showing up that well, but it is to the left of the rack (serial?) number, on the other side of the screw head ... but at about the same position on the receiver.  I'll try to post another photo, with the light showing that number more clearly.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote machodoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 1:14am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Where do you see the No4 Mk.2 stamp? I don't see it on any of the pictures!

I'm waiting for approval on the latest photo.  Sorry, but I thought that I'd posted one of those images originally. 

Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

I think our biggest clue might be the remains of the stamp on the Right side but-stock socket. The pic is looking down towards the trigger guard so the 3 "horseshoes" quite deeply stamped are the bottom of some kind of logo or crest. If we can figure out which one then we're getting somewhere. I was thinking maybe the bottoms of the BSA stacked rifles logo, but it doesn't quite fit.

So far, I haven't been able to find a match to that.  I agree that it may be part of some sort of logo or crest, but it's odd that those three marks would be stamped so deeply, and nothing at all besides those three shows up.

Your continued help is very much appreciated!
Old, fat, balding guy ... that narrows it down, right?
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