Enfield-Rifles.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Off Topic > OT Forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Anyone Anneal their cases?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Anyone Anneal their cases?
 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 5288 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Anyone Anneal their cases?
    Posted: May 22 2023 at 4:23pm
I’ve reloaded many years, mostly rifle calibers: .223, .308, .30-06 and .303 with jacketed bullets, .45-70, .577 Snider and .577-450 Martini Henry with cast lead bullets.  Handful of others. 

I’ve rarely annealed a cartridge case.  When I did, I had a very simple method, hold the case head with my fingers, put the neck and shoulder of the case into a propane torch (blow lamp) until it’s too hot to hold.  Not very precise. No idea if the neck was fully annealed or worse, damaged by the heat.  Could have used tempilaq but didn’t feel like messing with that, so I stopped annealing all together. 

The main reason to anneal (for me) is to prolong case life.  I suspect it may double the life of the brass.  It may also improve accuracy by giving more consistent neck tension and give a better gas seal.  I’ve reloaded some cases 30 to 40 times, and the necks get quite hard from doing this and no longer make a tight gas seal.  

I’ve not seen Snider or Martini Henry cases available in a number of years, and when they were, they cost more than $4.00 a case.  So, I need to make the ones I have last, or I will have to stop shooting those rifles. 

So, I’ve invested in a case annealer.  

Curious to hear how many of our members who reload anneal their cases.  
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Honkytonk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2017
Location: Brandon Mb
Status: Offline
Points: 4553 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2023 at 6:24pm
I do mine, also by hand. Not sure if PPU brass, or any modern brass needs it, but I think my 174 RN bullets look cool! Kinda "old school retro!
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 5288 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2023 at 6:31pm
I rarely get neck cracks in the .303, but it is the mode of failure for .223 and .30-06 cases I reload.  I’ve not yet had any cracking of .308 Win brass I load for the No. 4 7.62 conversions, and I’m probably up to 20 reloads or more on some of those cases. 

Will be interesting to see how it affects accuracy at mid to long range, suspect it won’t be noticeable at short range. 
Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Online
Points: 13432 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2023 at 8:06pm
not yet - have not needed to with my straight wall cartridges  so far 
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 16168 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2023 at 8:14pm
Yes.
I made this mickey mouse annealing jig from PVC plumbing parts. The torch is a stock Bernz-o-matic & I run it as low as i can keep a flame running. I use the "templisticks" to get a setup for batches, one at the mouth the other at the shoulder.
Rotation is with a B&D electric screwdriver & the deep socket is a holder / heat shield.
I dump the cases into water in the S/S bowl, just so they dont heat other cases as they're done. I tend to do large batches when I do, & so that's not much temperature in ° , but a lot of heat in Calories!
I have lots of PPU & HXP cases into their 6th & 7th firing with no signs of them giving it up, even with sturdy loads, so I'll keep doing it.
I posted this a while back but all the images seem to have vanished, so here we go again.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Online
Points: 13432 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2023 at 10:02pm
i love seeing these improvised solutions , have seen many over the years , yours looks like a good one to my novice eyes 
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 5288 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2023 at 3:16am
I recall seeing these photos Shamu, very clever set up!  Do you anneal on every reload?  I’ve read that is the best way to get consistent neck tension.  As the brass hardens, the case neck will spring back when exiting the die and neck tension is reduced. 
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 16168 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2023 at 9:29am
Usually every 3 loads.
I can actually feel when its needed by the press resistance in the sizing die.Cool
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 5288 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2023 at 10:00am
I was reading the results of extensive testing done by a NZ company on how neck hardness and neck tension (interference with bullet) changes during the firing and resizing cycle via cold working of the brass.  They enlisted the help of several long range shooters which shows a significant improvement in muzzle velocity extreme spread and group size at long range.  Their recommendation is to anneal every reload.  Not sure I'll do that, perhaps with my .223 600 yd load and my long range loads for the No. 4 7.62.   

I did find that new cases gave best accuracy at 600 to 1000 yds, even though they were not fire formed to fit the chamber first.  This was true for my .223 at 600 and my 7.62 No. 4 at 600, 800 and 1000 yds.  Didn't see much difference at 200 and 300 yds between new cases and those cases reloaded many times without annealing.  
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 16168 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2023 at 12:59pm
Perhaps my creation via a very slightly undersized expander button, created by polishing to slick up the Hornady dies very streamlined "egg-shaped" expander ball, while reducing ID by minute amounts is part of the equation?
I also use a moly dry lube on the inside of the case necks.
I'm really not sure because & initially tried it to reduce neck drag on resizing & expanding & eliminating crimps by increasing neck tension.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 5288 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2023 at 2:54pm
It’s going to be an interesting test for me.  I have been using Lapua .308 neck sized only (Lee collet die) cases in my No. 4 for shooting out to 1000 yards with pretty good results.  I want to see if I can improve this by:

1) Anneal brass
2) Partial Length Resize in Wilson Bushing type sizer (with no neck expander) to give very light crush fit.
3) Seat bullets with Wilson In-Line Seating Die, expecting no more than .001 concentricity

I will select the sizing die bushing to give me .002 bullet interference, and may experiment with .001 and .003 interference. 

I may not see any benefit from this, given the accuracy limitations of the No. 4 rifle and my own limitations in prone shooting.  But, it will be a pin interesting experiment nonetheless.

Unfortunately, I already have 150 rounds of my long range ammo loaded up using my old method (not annealed, and neck sized in the Lee collet die several times, standard Lee bullet seating die) for the No. 4 7.62, so will be a while until I can make this comparison.  My next outing to the 1000 yd range will be in late June.  
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 5288 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2023 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Perhaps my creation via a very slightly undersized expander button, created by polishing to slick up the Hornady dies very streamlined "egg-shaped" expander ball, while reducing ID by minute amounts is part of the equation?
I also use a moly dry lube on the inside of the case necks.
I'm really not sure because & initially tried it to reduce neck drag on resizing & expanding & eliminating crimps by increasing neck tension.

Shamu, I’ve done something similar, and also tried undersized expanders and mandrels to increase neck tension.  Not sure if this was necessary or if it made any difference.  But, I could sure feel a big difference in the force needed to size the cases that were annealed! 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.