Enfield-Rifles.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Enfields > Hunting with the .303 British cartridge.
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Battle Site
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Battle Site

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Honkytonk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2017
Location: Brandon Mb
Status: Offline
Points: 2312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Battle Site
    Posted: November 07 2019 at 9:44am
Is the battle site on a No5 calibrated the same as a No4? I believe the No4 is 300 yards. Thanks!
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
The Armourer View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: June 23 2019
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 121
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2019 at 10:42am
Originally posted by Honkytonk Honkytonk wrote:

Is the battle site on a No5 calibrated the same as a No4? I believe the No4 is 300 yards. Thanks!


Not an answer to your question but of interest ?



SMLE TESTING
For the SMLE All rifles were tested for accuracy by the Small Arms Inspection Department at 100ft, and 10% were also tested at 600 yds. All rifles were fired from a special mechanical rest, known as an Enfield Rest, and a special Telescope layer was used for laying an aim. The Enfield Rest was designed to simulate the conditions under which a rifle would be held when fired from the shoulder, and was provided with hand wheel adjustments for laying an aim. Trial shots were first fired and, if necessary the foresight was adjusted laterally, or replaced by one of a different height, until the shots on the target were within the required limits. Five rounds were then fired, and four of the five shots had to be contained in a rectangle 1 inch broad by 1½ in high. Rifle which failed this test were rejected. At 600 yds 10 shots were fired, nine of which had to fall within a 2 foot circle.

No 4 RIFLE TESTING
For the No 4 Rifle, the accuracy test was the same at 100ft ten per cent of all rifles were then fired at 200 yds when six of seven shots had to fall in a rectangle 6in x 6in , the point of mean impact having to be within 3 inches of the point of aim in any direction. Ten per cent of rifles fired at 200 yds were again fired at 600 yds when 6 out of seven shots had to be in a rectangle 18 inches x 18 inches the permissible deviation of point of mean impact being 9 inches up or down, or left or right. Two per cent of rifles were fired from the shoulder, ten rounds being fed into the magazine by charger and fired rapid to test “feeding up” and ejection. After these tests the barrel was inspected to ensure that there was no expansion in the bore or chamber and that it shaded correctly from end to end. (Was not bent)

No 5 TESTING
The firing test to which the No 5 rifle was subjected was the same as that for the No 4 at 100ft. It was not tested at 200 yds but 10 per cent were tested at 600 yards when the acceptance was ten out of ten shots contained in a rectangle 36 inches x 36 inches. Two per cent of the No 5 rifles were also submitted to the same functioning test as the No4 rifle.

Throughout World War 2 much of the accuracy testing was done by women shooters who quickly became proficient at the job. To speed up the procedure, the telescope layer was dispensed with, and aim was taken in the normal way through the back sight. The .1 inch aperture in the back sight was too large for easily laying a correct aim at 100ft, and a small spring steel adaptor was used.
Back to Top
Honkytonk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2017
Location: Brandon Mb
Status: Offline
Points: 2312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2019 at 11:10am
Correct on both! Very interesting read... still wondering about my question.Smile
Back to Top
Goosic View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Status: Online
Points: 2573
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2019 at 11:33am
The No5MkI  micrometer sight and the No4MkI  micrometer sight both have the main peep sight opened up to 0.192",which should indicate that both are set at 300 yards initially. The actual micrometer adjustment  for the No5 is from 200 to 800 yards whereas the No4 is from to 200 to 1300 yards respectively. 
Back to Top
Honkytonk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2017
Location: Brandon Mb
Status: Offline
Points: 2312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2019 at 4:55pm
Thanks Goosic. Those numbers ring a bell from what I'd read hear before.
Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member

Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Offline
Points: 9830
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2019 at 9:17pm
yup - they are different , much like the 2A & 2A1 , but those were re-calibration motivated for the 762 ammo , the no 5 i think was thought to be closer quarters , but im certain someone knows better than i on that detail , 
Back to Top
Zed View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: May 01 2012
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 3156
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2019 at 11:26pm
HT, I when I read "Battle site" I thought we'd be talking about "The Somme"Wink


It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
Back to Top
The Armourer View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: June 23 2019
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 121
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 12:15am
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

HT, I when I read "Battle site" I thought we'd be talking about "The Somme"Wink




Being pedantic - spelling is important.
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1030
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 8:04am
Sight radius is shorter on No. 5, so range index marks have to be closer together than on the No. 4 rifle.   I think also the screw has a different pitch, not sure if it gives 1 MOA per click as does the Mk 1 rear sight on the No. 4 rifle. 
I think HT was asking about the elevation setting for the battle aperture when the sight is folded down. 
Back to Top
Honkytonk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2017
Location: Brandon Mb
Status: Offline
Points: 2312
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 9:08am
You are correct, britrifles. I must have a weird head, or cheek weld differently than most. On all my Enfields I've sighted in (with just the folded down battle site) at 50 and even 100 yards, I can routinely lob them into a 6" pie plate. Am I abnormal or do any other members suffer from this ailment? I should mention at both distances, I aim the front post at the centre of the target.
Back to Top
The Armourer View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: June 23 2019
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 121
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 9:36am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:


Sight radius is shorter on No. 5, so range index marks have to be closer together than on the No. 4 rifle.   I think also the screw has a different pitch, not sure if it gives 1 MOA per click as does the Mk 1 rear sight on the No. 4 rifle. 
I think HT was asking about the elevation setting for the battle aperture when the sight is folded down. 



From an old post on another forum :


Parashooter – No4 Vs No5 Rear sight Threads

Given the slightly coarser thread on the 800-yard sight, the "click value" would be some 10% greater than the 1300-yard sight if both were mounted on rifles with the same sight radius - except for the fact that the 1300-yard elevation screw is double-threaded, giving it an effective pitch approximately double that of the single-thread 800-yard screw.

On measuring the two sights shown, each click of the No.4's sight moves the slide .008" - vs. .0043" on the No.5's sight. Consequently, the 1300-yard sight gives very close to 1.0 MOA per click with the No.4 rifle's 28" sight radius while the 800-yard sight has a click value of ~0.66 MOA with the No.5's 23" sight radius and would yield ~0.55 MOA on a No.4 rifle. (Pretty much what Maxwell Smart reports in post #17 on this thread.)
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1030
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 9:51am
Yes, I recall this information.  Made me think of getting a No. 5 rifle rear sight and install on my No. 4 to give a finer adjustment; but would not be considered "in the spirit" of the as issued Vintage service rifle matches. 
 
I did confirm that the Mk 1 rear sight for the No. 4 rifle does indeed give 1 MOA clicks on the No. 4 rifle; quite adequate for centering groups on the short range targets (to 300 yards).  
Back to Top
Zed View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: May 01 2012
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 3156
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 10:37am
Could you swap the threaded components from the No5 to the No4 rear sight? 
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1030
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 11:14am
That's tempting!  
 
But, since I use this for service rifle matches, I wouldn't feel right about it.  Honestly, even with the 1 MOA adjustable Mk 1 sight, it's not too difficult to get a clean score at 200 yards.  When I want to shoot an open "unlimited" match, I put the PH 5C/D on and get 1/4 MOA windage and elevation.  
Back to Top
The Armourer View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: June 23 2019
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 121
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 11:27am
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

Could you swap the threaded components from the No5 to the No4 rear sight? 


I just swapped out the complete sight on my No4 (but I don't shoot competitions) and bagged up (and labelled) the original sight so it can always remain with 'its' rifle.

1/2 MOA makes a big difference.
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 11099
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2019 at 12:47pm
The battle sight is 300 on both. Being a larger aperture its very sight positioning change is not relevant. It may be as simple as your FRONT sight being the wrong height?
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.