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Bayonet lugs on a 7.62?

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Sinnlover View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinnlover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2021 at 1:10am
Apologies for the extra post but if you look at the last picture you can see the holes for the scope rail, these have been filled (by me) there is another hole on the charger guide for the rear of the rail, the charger guide is the 303 type, it does not hold the 7.62 chargers.
The barrel does not appear to be blued it is covered in a black paint that is chipping off in areas, could this be due to the alloy used in an L8 type barrel? e.g. The alloy was not able to be blued?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2021 at 1:50am
The electro stencil marks on the slabside is where we will start. Your rifle was manufactured by the Fazackerly factory in 1949 as a No4Mk2 with a serial number of PF63055. Whoever refurbished the rifle with addition of a scope did not pay attention to the box around the PF and saw a 1 in front of the 6 and transferred the Pf 163055 to the wrist and bolt handle by stamping them in. The f is of the wrong font and someone ground away the original serial number from the bolt handle. You can just make out part of a number just past the second 5. If it was the original bolt the serial number would have been electro stenciled in as well. When Fazackerly went to the electro stencil, they did away with stamping the serial numbers into the wrist and into the bolt handle.  The ejector tab looks to have been done professionally which could and would suggest that Fazackerly did the conversion originally which included a Sterling magazine, a L8 series 7.62mm barrel and a dip in suncorote paint. Someone after the fact recieved the rifle and added a scope mount and a new set of serial numbers to a mismatched bolt assembly due to the original being lost or misplaced...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinnlover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2021 at 2:53am
Ah-ha! that makes sense as the electro pencil marks do look to have a box around the PF, I noticed that some time ago but I thought the missing 1 was a mistake as the wrist and bolt were stamped the same. 
I may now need to contact the police to update them on the serial number - they keep track of all rifles in private ownership. My certificate has the 1 prefix serial noted on it and I guess this will need to be changed.
As I said, I bought the rifle as a conversion and it was cheap for a rifle in the UK (about £400 from memory) 
If I am honest, I did not know too much about Enfield's when I bought it (I still don't). I wanted a original looking No4 but in 7.62 as this is the caliber I am allowed to own. I bought it from a dealer in Liverpool about 3/4 years ago and had it transferred down to London. I had not even seen the rifle when I bought it only pictures. However it had a good bore and barrel. 
The more I saw other rifles the more I noticed differences between my rifle and others, which is why started diving in to its potential history, When I discovered that there was a rifle called the L8 and mine had bayonet lugs it got me even more intrigued, especially with the stories that are out there about the L8 - all thrown over board after a trial during the Suez Crisis - remaining rifles in the Met police store as a back up rifle in the event of civil unrest etc. (the last one came from a former Police firearms officer) 
At least I have more information on its history now, Thank you for taking the time to reply.
I hope I can get out to the range and shoot it again soon, My club had a day booked tomorrow but all the ranges are closed! it have no idea when it might get used again!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2021 at 8:08am
If it were me, I would leave it alone as far as contacting your local police about the serial number. For all intents and purposes, that is an electro stenciled 1 in front if the 6 and the, "same identical numbers" are found on the wrist and bolt handle. If that is the way the rifle was certified then so be it.
Something of interest for you to know.
On page  511 of the big Enfield book by Skennerton, it shows a Sterling Engineering converted No4 with the same ejector your rifle has, it also shows a charger guide adapter that was screwed into place.  The same place that you filled in because you thought it was tapped for a scope mount. One photo shows a barrel with bayonet lugs as well. Double check the number of grooves though. Specifications state that the Sterling conversion had a 4 groove right hand twist. You might also take the extra time to remove the forestock and have a looks see at the area where the barrel and action contact. The conversion was done by both Sterling Engineering and local armourers with the kits coming with a set of breaching up washers. You tested one and adjusted the size until the barrel tightened up to the right position. So look for some washers that might be hinding under that lower handguard collar. I saw some additional stamps on the barrel just at the woodline in your photo and alot of rifle manufacturers had a tendency to stamp the piss out of their barrels around that area. Again,by removing the forestock and examining the underside and sides of the barrel as well as checking for those breech washers you may uncover something else.
It seems to me for the time being that you indeed have a Sterling Conversion. Let us continue with the hunt shall we?...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinnlover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2021 at 8:34am
Fair point about contacting the 'old bill' I have no idea how long the rifle marked like this, it could open a can of worms.
I will remove the forestock at the weekend and have a look for more markings / stamps as you have suggested (its now going dark here and peeing with rain still so light is poor) I would love to finally get to the bottom of it so the hunt will continue, I will post a picture of what I find.
In the mean time I will try to track down a copy of Skennerton's book.
Thank you
John
  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2021 at 9:36am
Lets not forget that
A: we ain't lawyers
B: we sure aren't Brit Solicitors
&
3: English & U.S firearms laws differ drastically.
In the U.S. Its (mostly) illegal to register firearms by serial number. (2nd amendment thing.) but in the U.K. all firearms are required to be registered by serial number.
US law prohibits changing, defacing, or removing numbers, but it only "requires" them to be on "the receiver" as defined (sometimes whackily) By the BATFE!
I know of no restriction on having multiple numbers, I have a FAL with one number on the upper (receiver) & a totally different one on the lower (not technically a receiver). This is because different countries define "receiver" differently.
However the receipt has the lower's serial listed, not the upper, which is a receiver.
ErmmWacko
I'd check with someone who is a Brit Solicitor & is familiar with British firearms laws. Do you know which serial is listed for it?

Or, Plan"C":
IF the number without the "1" is the documented number simply borrow an electropencil & draw in the missing lines of the box.
Wink


Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2021 at 9:42am
Totally different item.
Is the forend & front of the handguard "normal" for 7.62 conversions?
I ask because the forend seems to be trimmed back as compared to a "normal" .303 one.
I know its a bad idea to have the hanguard front contact the front sight block, but that seems like a lot of a gap!
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2021 at 9:57am
I personally can only use mine as an example of a conversion using a "normal" forestock. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2021 at 10:05am
I also suggest you be very careful removing the forend, you easily damage it and if you do, you will negatively affect accuracy.  The worst thing you can do is attempt to remove the forend by pulling it away from the barrel at the muzzle.  Try to lift it away from the receiver end first, keeping the forend parallel to the barrel. You may need to tap it with a wood block along the upper edge of the forend along the length of the receiver.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinnlover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2021 at 11:57am
Hi Shamu thanks for chipping in, all advice and tips are appreciated. 
My local Forearms liaison officer in the police is a nice guy so I might just give him a call to see what he says, I am not breaking the law, it’s a genuine mistake and not on my part. It will also keep me in his good books for my Firearms certificate amendment that I plan to submit later in the year for a .303 and 8mm (and 30.06 if I can get away with it)
Re the fore end the pictures above show it without the fore end. When complete the rifle looks like Goosic’s I have never noticed a difference between my rifle and my Fathers No4, I will take a look and some pictures at the weekend when I look for any extra stamps.

Britrifles, thanks for the tip, I am ashamed to say I have never taken the full stock off - I have never needed to. 

I have to say I am glad I have found the forum as I have learnt a lot in the last few days having a nose around and a read.
I have passed the details on to my Dad so it looks like he may join as well.
Cheers 

John 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2021 at 12:17pm
I have been spending quite the time researching the L8 series and the Sterling conversion as well.  If it was not for Ian Skennertons book I would have been at a loss.  Have learned alot and am glad I can pass the information on to you...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2021 at 12:25pm
Shamu, I don’t believe the 7.62 Conversions (DCRA and L8 and equivalent) modified the forend in any way.  These 7.62 barrels were identical in outer contour and length as the No. 4 .303 barrel.  The later developments with the heavy barrel (L39, L42, Envoy, Enforcer) of course was much different with the forend cut down and barrel free floating.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2021 at 3:36pm
Thanks, I think he sorted it when he posted he'd removed the handguard for the pic. I just noticed the YUUUGE gap & commented.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinnlover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2021 at 8:50am
Evening All
I have tried to take some better pictures of the barrel markings, I will take the fore stock off over the weekend to see what’s underneath, in the mean time




I have also taken a photo of the charger guide, this hole was for the scope rail, the other photo is a close up for the holes for the front of the scope





A picture showing the bayonet lugs work! 



Lastly a full length picture of it


I have been going through Stratton’s book (shown) and I too now think it’s definitely a sterling conversion

Excuse the mess of the kitchen table, it’s too cold to go out in the garage Tongue

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2021 at 10:35am
Faux 7.62mm L8A5T with a South African Armscor No9 Mk1 bayonet...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinnlover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2021 at 11:48am
I have thought about mounting a scope on mine but I like iron sights (enjoying it whilst I am young enough to see the target without a scope) Smile
I have one of the quick mounts and a good quality scope on my Mini14 that I could use but I have never gotten around to it. 
I have looked at the repro No32s but have heard mixed reviews about them. 
I also have a Parker hale aperture sight that I have never used, it just sits in the odds n sods box.
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