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Bayonet lugs on a 7.62?

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Shamu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2021 at 1:04pm
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinnlover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2021 at 1:23pm
that’s the style of mount I have. I fitted it once but took it straight off.
They are really easy to fit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinnlover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2021 at 10:07am
apologies for the radio silence, I will get the stock off this weekend, and take some pictures of the stamping, unfortunately boring things like work get in the way some times 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rufrdr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2021 at 4:56am
I sourced an AJ Parker barrel from the UK a couple decades ago via a chap in NY State who sold #4 kits in 7.62mm.  It consisted of an AJ Parker barrel with lugs, a Sterling magazine, a 7.62mm extractor, and a charger adapter to 7.62mm clips.

Perhaps you have an AJ Parker barrel.

Also, I obtained an in the white 7.62mm barrel from a person who said he had obtained it and others when CAL shut down.  Unlike the DCRA barrels, it has bayonet lugs.

Another possibility.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strangely Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2022 at 9:17am
Late to thread as ever!

Last week I had the chance to briefly examine four 7.62mm No.4 barrels, all had bayonet lugs on and I believe were Enfield manufactured with the exception of one which was made in Belgium!

My failure to find a DCRA No.4 or even a British put together one with a Canadian barrel has gone on for at least 12 years so I have asked Fultons at Bisley to put one together for me; naturally I will post more about it when it happens. 

I also noticed a post in here about serial numbers and their legality; at least in British law. 
My own No.4 (SR"a") which I use (not so much these days!) for service rifle comps has what we call a "scrubbed" receiver, i.e. cleaned up and refinished. 

The rifle is a Fazackerley No.4 Mk2 and was made in 1949 with the serial No. 406534. 
This serial number is much later than the date would presume for a Fazackerley and this was because Parker-Hale were given a block of serial numbers (one assumes by the ministry of defence?) to use for their revamped No.4 target rifles, mine has a P-H ball burnished barrel which was an "extra" back in the day.  
I've observed about 5 of these rifles all with similar engravings and out of sequence serial numbers to date, one of them was only three digits away from mine! 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2022 at 2:37pm
Mick,

I wouldn’t think there would be many DCRA No. 4 7.62 conversions in the UK.  Perhaps a few that DCRA shooters sold to UK competitive shooters during  the relatively short time they would have been used in competition.  Much like the rarity of the L39 and Envoy rifles here in the US.  I have two legit DCRA conversions, and they both shoot very well indeed.  I’d love to trade one for an Envoy!  

I’m looking forward to hearing about your Fulton’s built No.4 7.62 and how well it shoots.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strangely Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2022 at 2:53pm
Geoff,

I know of one although not an official DCRA rifle it's a Long Branch with a Canadian barrel and the foresight has been inserted into the sight protectors which I've always felt was a Canadian "thing". 
It appeared on a list of rifles for sale but when I enquired it had become part of his core collection!

The other one I would have liked was built presumably by Fultons with a Canadian barrel and belonged to a friend although I had no idea it was in a No.4 profile. 
I had assumed wrongly it was an Enfield conversion prior to the L39 becoming available for the Army Rifle Association. I only discovered exactly what it was after he told me a dealer had sold it for him. 
Mick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2022 at 6:43pm
Great story of a great rifle and great shooter!  I really enjoyed it! 

One of my DCRA conversions is bedded exactly the same as this rifle, with a composite barrel bearing at the middle (sling swivel) band and at the chamber reinforce,  although no bearing in the handguard. I think that idea came after the time my rifle was set up (mid 1960’s).

It takes exceptional skill to shoot 1.25 - 1.5 MOA with an aperture sight off the elbows.  I’ve only done this a few times with my No.4, once with the Fulton .303 and perhaps a few times with the DCRA.  I will fully admit, that is not the norm for me, more like 2 MOA for 10 rounds. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2022 at 6:54pm
FWIW
I remember there being a sort of one upmanship thing at Bisley back then. There were 3 schools of thought, from memory.
.303 is better at 1,000 yds. (than 7.62) & that's where matches are won or lost.
7.62 is a better round than .303 because (rimless, faster, mo modern).
Get a Mauser action with lighter bullets (P-14 with a Schultz & larsen LBS barrel).


Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2022 at 4:16am
From the reports I could find written at the time from DCRA and Bisley shooters, the .303 did better at the short to Mid ranges and 7.62 did better at longer ranges.  Though to be due to the positive compensation of the 7.62 being around 800 to 900 yards.   But really was mostly due to poor quality ammo (very inconsistent powder charges giving large velocity spreads).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strangely Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2022 at 4:44am
Now that the 7.62mm has come of age in target rifle shooting (read 155gr Palma SMK) I think a lot of the argument about which was the better long range calibre has a lot to do with trajectory.

An old friend who was LERA's first chairman (now passed) told me that at Bisley during the summer Imperial meeting in the 1960's there would be a demonstration on Stickledown range at 1000x yards in the evening. 
This involved two shooters firing at the same target using tracer ammunition so the invited audience could see the perceived difference in trajectories between the two calibres. Whilst the heavier .303 bullet made a larger arc it was more susceptible to stronger winds higher up, the 7.62mm with a lighter bullet (144gr) and a lower trajectory escaped the stronger winds, if indeed at the time of firing those stronger winds were present!
You may be forgiven to think that the two bullet weights cancelled each other out but apparently this was not the case according to the old & bold. 

One of the trades in the army was that of battery surveyor working in a command post and dealing with meteorology; the one thing that I remember is that reading Met messages which were a whole block of numbers showed that at different altitudes you could have different wind speeds and directions, hence a bullet with a higher arc could well be more susceptible to different changes in wind direction and speed. 
This doesn't give a firm answer to the argument but it does show there's a lot more to think about! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2022 at 5:58am
Yes, lots of factors involved here.  

 The first problem encountered with the No. 4 7.62 conversions was poor vertical dispersion, particularly noticed at the short ranges, 200 and 300, with less effect at 500 and 600 and no effect at Long Range.  Maj E.G.B. Reynolds wrote about this problem and how they attempted to overcome it.  

Little or no attention was given to the quality of the ball ammunition being used.  I suspect being produced on worn out WWII loading equipment.  The principle issue was very inconsistent powder weights giving large velocity spreads. 

As well as the benefits of a lower trajectory (keeping the bullet out of stronger winds that may be aloft), that light 147/150 gr bullet is moving much faster than the .303 174 gr bullet and less susceptible to wind drift.  

Now that we have some excellent 155 gr high BC bullets in .308 Cal, we can do even better with our handloads.  Although, I’m a bit leery to push the velocities up to .308 pressures in a No. 4, I’m curious if that will blow the groups…but I’ll find out soon enough.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strangely Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2022 at 6:22am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

Although, I’m a bit leery to push the velocities up to .308 pressures in a No. 4, I’m curious if that will blow the groups…but I’ll find out soon enough.

This! 
One of the reasons for getting another No.4 put together in 7.62mm is so that I can do some experimenting; my oldest ammunition is some RG 85, (used up the 81 in my Accuracy International) and looking forward to comparing my 150gr SMK handloads with some 2010 GPMG link that I was given.

I also have a couple of No.4 foresight protectors that have been covered to shade the foresight blade, I'm interested to see what difference they make and and the same time do some research into what type of shading on foresights was allowed during the .303/7.62mm transitional period.

Is this last paragraph the nerdyist thing you've read today? Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2022 at 6:42am
Mick, my “yet to try” loads I put together for my DCRA 7.62 for long range shooting is:

Case - Lapua
Primer - WLR
Powder - 45.0 gr Varget (ADI AR2208)
Bullet:  155 gr Sierra Palma MatchKing 
COL: 2.85

Estimated muzzle velocity from 25 inch barrel is 2800 fps.  
Estimated pressure 44,000 CUP.  
Above estimates obtained by interpolating on the Hodgdon online load data.  

This is about the highest pressure I’m comfortable with, within a reasonable margin of error. 

Edited to add the following:

I’ve shown the photo below on another thread.   It was my sighting in shots with the UF56 DCRA 7.62 conversion at 800 yards.  Shot prone in sling, PH5C aperture sight, standard front sight. 

Load was 175 gr SMK under 40.5 gr IMR 4064.  

The lateral spread was due to sight adjustment for wind.  Vertical spread is 1.5 MOA.  Mind you, this is only 4 shots.  I then moved out to 1,000 yards but the bullet did not have sufficient velocity to trigger the electronic targets (needs 1200 fps).  The RO could see the bullets thru the spotting scope going into the center of the target, but no registered hits on the monitor.  This is why I’ve pumped up the loads and went to a 155 gr Palma Match bullet which has a high BC for the weight of the bullet.  



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