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Topic ClosedBest surplus ammo for nato 7.62x51 Enfield Pt 2

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Goosic View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2020 at 11:35am
Can you supply us with a side by side comparison with 303B proofing methods please?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2020 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

 

They used the standard proof round for 7.62 NATO.

But as a comparison the 308 SAAMI proof round is 35+ tonnes.





Interesting that 308 has higher pressures than 7.62 NATO

Comparisons :


This is exactly why the 308 is listed has having a higher PSI then that of the NATO 7.62

NATO EPVATEdit

NATO defines 5.56mm, 7.62mm, 9mm and 12.7mm using the NATO EPVAT test methods, which includes pressure testing. Unlike the civilian testing methods NATO EPVAT testing procedures for the "NATO rifle chamberings" require the pressure sensor or transducer to be mounted ahead of the case mouth. The advantage of this mounting position is that there is no need to drill the cartridge case to mount the transducer. Drilling prior to firing is always a time-consuming process (fast quality control and feedback to production is essential during the ammunition manufacturing process). The disadvantage of this mount is that the pressure rises much faster than in a drilled cartridge case. This causes high frequency oscillations of the pressure sensor (approx 200 kHz for a Kistler 6215 transducer) and this requires electronic filtering with the drawback that filtering also affects the lower harmonics where a peak is found causing a slight error in the measurement. This slight error is not always well mastered and this causes a lot of discussion about the filter order, cutoff frequency and its type (Bessel or Butterworth).[9] For the 9mm NATO EPVAT specifies that for 9×19mm Parabellum (9mm Luger in C.I.P. nomenclature and 9mm NATO in NATO nomenclature), the transducer must be positioned at the mid case position (9.5 millimetres (0.37 in)) from the breech face instead of C.I.P.'s 12.5 millimetres (0.49 in) from the breech face. For NATO EPVAT testing of military firearms ammunition NATO design EPVAT test barrels with Kistler 6215 channel sensor transducers are used

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2020 at 3:19pm
Hi All
        interesting thread
    i was about to ask if it was ok to use 308, as 7.62x51 is getting harder to find
    but i dont need to now 
      cheers J 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2020 at 3:59pm
Federal Ammunition makes a factory 175grn .308 round that can definitely be used in a rifle chambered for the 7.62x51mm NATO. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2021 at 6:56am
Das ist ein sehr interessantes Thema...   

Hier in der Schweiz gibts eine andere, Auswahl Auswahl eine 7,62 mm Nato-Munition ... Fast alle 144-147 gr-Sorten kommen mit der Bezeichnung .308 Win., überdies...

Was waren die Erfahrungen mit den .308 Win.-Laborierungen Federal American Eagle 150 gr FMJ-BT und PMC 147 gr Bronze FMJ-BT und der Lapua B466 150 gr Lock-Base in einer No. 4-Enfield-Conversion ? Am besten mit Streukreisen, Mündungsgeschwindigkeiten.. .

Danke Zwinkern

Beste Grüsse aus einer
verschneiten Schweiz  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2021 at 7:11am
Baa... German not English in the posting before. I beg your pardon. Angry

This is a really interesting topic. Confused Because here in Switzerland we get quite another, smaller choice of 7,62 mm-Nato-Ammo only..  Most of the 144-150 gr loads come as .308 Win.-stuff, on top of that.. 

What was your experience with the .308 Win.-Loads Federal American Eagle 150 gr FMJ-BT, PMC Bronze 147 gr FMJ-BT and Lapua B466 150 gr Lock Base FMJ ? 

Ideally with group size and muzzle velocities.. .

Many Thanks Wink  

Best regards from
a snowy Switzerland

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2021 at 2:13pm
I have only used the Commercially loaded 175grn Federal Ammunition and recently acquired the Military M852 Match ammunition for testing purposes only. I handload using both the Hornady BTHP and Sierra Matchking BTHP 168grn .308 bullet. I use Norma 202 and IMR4064 starting with 40.0, never exceeding 42.0 for both as well. Published data gives a PSI on the Piezo Scale of just under 40,000 using the suggested starting charge weight of both powders. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2021 at 3:11pm
OK, now I think I understand.
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7.62mm NATO is a "Military round"
.308 Win is a "Civilian round"
We have a similar, but not quite as dense, ruling here.
The FN-FAL was imported here in .308 Winchester (match) from Belgium, why? Because it was a civilian target (in the US Pistol! Wink) round. Its politics not ballistics.
So lets think for a moment.
1: Is it a 150gr (9.52544Gm) bullet?
2: Is the muzzle velocity lower than 2650FPS (M/S 807.72) The quoted velocities tend to say NO! (850M/S)
If it is you're possibly safe. It's going to depend on things like the burning rate (@ 850M/S) of the powder used ( which we don't know) ?????
BUT!
There may still be differences that are unsafe, like Peak pressure, Pressure curve & so on.


Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2021 at 7:29pm
I’ve come to look at this question in a broader sense than just the ultimate strength of the action for a one time application of the maximum pressure.  I consider the cumulative effects of shooting thousands of rounds of this ammo.  For that reason, I have chosen to load my own as Goosic does to the low end of the .308 Winchester published data keeping pressures and velocities to less than that of .303 British Mk 7 ammunition (for similar weight bullets, 168 and 175 grains). 

All you can be certain of is that this American Eagle and Lapua 150 gr commercial ammo is within the 62,000 psi piezo pressure maximum when fired in a SAAMI spec chamber.  We don’t know what the pressure is for that ammo fired in your particular rifle.  

For me, I would much rather reload my own, to the low end of the .308 Winchester published data, and chronograph my loads to give me confidence that the chamber pressures are low, and less than .303 British Mk 7 ammunition.  I do this to minimize long term wear on the rifle, not out of concern that I will blow up the rifle from an overload. 

I want to minimize barrel throat erosion and wear on the action.  These rifles are not being made anymore and good ones are getting harder to find. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2021 at 9:09am
Good evening, thanks for all the answers Wink

Goosic: this Federal 175 grain is this the Gold Medal-Match, i suppose ? 

Only to be sure to understand it really correctly, you had no problems with it in a No.4-Enfield ?

That would be great... !

BR 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2021 at 6:12am
Better said, it is rather this type of box, these days... Now the pic has been found here - if you had a trouble-free use in a Enfield No.4-Conversion, that would really help solve problems.. . Smile  Basically I can imagine that, because Federal ammo was in any caliber never loaded hot, according to my 30 Years experience. And having a look at reloading Infos, f.e. Hogdon, it seems to be possible.. .

If 1 or 2 commercial loads works well and are also payable, reloading would be unnecessary so everything would be by far simpler.. . I don't reload until but was and I'm still interested in it.

Federal 175 gr Match, Military M852 Match: You have really good access to ammo..  Enviable  Tongue 
If here in Switzerland a Federal Ammo product appears, its usually quickly sold out.. You have to run.  

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2021 at 3:36am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2021 at 3:51am
Originally posted by Enfield Envoy Enfield Envoy wrote:

Good evening, thanks for all the answers Wink

Goosic: this Federal 175 grain is this the Gold Medal-Match, i suppose ? 

Only to be sure to understand it really correctly, you had no problems with it in a No.4-Enfield ?

That would be great... !

BR 
I myself have not had an issue with the 175grn Sierra Matchking as loaded by Federal Ammunition. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2021 at 3:54am
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

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Why??
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2021 at 3:54am
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

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Why?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2021 at 3:55am
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

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Why???
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