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Goosic View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 05 2021 at 5:58pm
I was setting up some 243 reloading dies and a thought occurred. 
With some of us here reloading for our 303's and the current state of smokeless powder being unattainium.  Why not switch it up and use black powder? Midwayusa.com has a bunch of it and I loaded up 100 rounds last year using FFFG with no issues whatsoever.  Save for the smoke show. My chronographed fps was only 1855 using the 174grn BTHP bullets. 
Accuracy was very acceptable as well.

Just a thought...
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Points: 3897 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddyofurniture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2021 at 6:51pm
Interesting idea.

Was it a compress load?
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Points: 3125 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2021 at 6:52pm
If that works I say go for it! Good idea!
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Someone on here told me to fill the case to the rim, level it and then seat the bullet.  So, yes, its a compressed load. Never got a round to go faster than 1900 fps...
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Points: 234 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marco1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2021 at 9:05pm
someone should have original load data for the Black powder loads for the original Lee metford?  We are taking a large leap back in time here, better warm up the Tardis.
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The original .303 Mark I Ball black powder load was 71.5 grains of powder compressed into a cylinder and perforated in the center, then dropped into the case before it was formed into a bottleneck.  

Muzzle velocity with a 213 grain bullet was 1830 fps.  
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Points: 5400 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2021 at 6:44am
 I tried weighing out 70.0 grains of the FFFG and it just overflowed the case. I just filled the case and then leveled it off without tamping the charge down and then seated the bullet.  My averaged chronographed speed was 1855 fps with the slowest being 1825 and the highest being right at 1900. No jarring kick like a mule routine of the smokeless powder round either...
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I would definitely give the rifle a good cleaning after every outing. I still use real BP in my Thompson Centre hammerlock and found that really, really hot water cleans best. Drys fast, then I apply a thin coat of Bore Butter. 
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That fill the case & seat the bullet technique was probably me.
I've done it with 200Gr cast lead.
B/P is about 1/10 the power of smokeless, so its darn near impossible to overload, or even match the original B/P load densities.
"This .303 round had a drawn brass case and round-nosed, 215-grain cupro-nickel-jacketed bullet. The cartridge was Boxer primed and incorporated a compressed black-powder charge of 71½ grains." I've never even gotten 70 grains in a case no matter what I did.
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 I still have a box of the Lapua D166 rebated boattail 200grn 7.62x54R bullets that when used with the BP, works fantastically...
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Points: 11723 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2021 at 8:58pm
i shoot a lot of cowboy action - the only reason i do not shoot BP is the cleaning aspect , im not trying to dissuade anyone from doing so , i do shoot some in my flintlock and in a couple C&B i have but only when i know i have the time to clean properly - i have watched cowboy shooters clean for hours in the evening/night after a days shoot , it just does not work for me 
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Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

That fill the case & seat the bullet technique was probably me.
I've done it with 200Gr cast lead.
B/P is about 1/10 the power of smokeless, so its darn near impossible to overload, or even match the original B/P load densities.

Smokeless rifle powder is about 35 to 40% by weight equivalent to black.  You can find this by equating published B/P load data for cartridges such as the .45-70 with published smokeless loads at similar bullet weights and velocities.  Black Powder will compress significantly, I use a compression die to get 70 grains into the .45-70 case.  On the plus side, compressed charges burn much cleaner than loose powder. 

I think the .303 Mk I ball 71.5 grain B/P load used a pellet of compressed powder, the pellet must have been formed in a press then dropped into the case before the neck was formed. 
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Yes thats exactly how it was done. Imagine Wealth & he!!fare allowing that today!
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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I hadn’t thought of using black powder to supplement my supply of smokeless powder.
I was thinking that once I got my Lee Medford up and running I would use some, might have to do that sooner.
The Lee Enfield is to the Canadian north what the Winchester repeater was to the American west.   Cal Bablitz
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If it helps, I have been using Pyrodex P, the FFFG equivalent of and have not had an issue to date...
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What about Hodgdon’s triple seven powder?
My local shooting store had some.
The Lee Enfield is to the Canadian north what the Winchester repeater was to the American west.   Cal Bablitz
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