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BSA No1MkIII gone through FTR in 1953

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Marco1010 View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 20 2023 at 8:08pm
I have just picked up a no 1 Mk III with matching numbers on bolt , rear sight, receiver, and barrel knox.
Receiver wrist has a BSA cypher, but appears to have been otherwise scrubbed of any older markings.
Marked as as having gone through FTR in 1953 (in electro-pencil) on the forward left side of the receiver.
I notice that on the rear left shoulder of the receiver its stamped NRF, so I understand this indicates it was maybe originally manufactured under the peddled scheme ????
It covered in suncorite paint which would be typical of the FTR in 1953.
Is there anything I might have missed or should look for ?
Came in sporter configuration, so likely I will return it to original fit-out as have 99% of the parts needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2023 at 11:46pm
without photos of what you have said ill agree with your thinking , peddled scheme , thinking refurb in india as the scrubbing is common to them , is it a mkIII or a mkIII* ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marco1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2023 at 12:41am
I will give a clean and take some photos to post on the forum.
I suspect that there could be more markings lurking under the suncorite.
Bore looks in good condition, so maybe a new barrel done at the FTR.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2023 at 3:37am
Originally posted by Marco1010 Marco1010 wrote:

I have just picked up a no 1 Mk III with matching numbers on bolt , rear sight, receiver, and barrel knox.
Receiver wrist has a BSA cypher, but appears to have been otherwise scrubbed of any older markings.
Marked as as having gone through FTR in 1953 (in electro-pencil) on the forward left side of the receiver.
I notice that on the rear left shoulder of the receiver its stamped NRF, so I understand this indicates it was maybe originally manufactured under the peddled scheme ????
It covered in suncorite paint which would be typical of the FTR in 1953.
Is there anything I might have missed or should look for ?
Came in sporter configuration, so likely I will return it to original fit-out as have 99% of the parts needed.

Is the FTR marking something like "B53" ?

BSA did not do any FTRs for the UK Military all of their FTRs were for 'private' sales to Foreign nations.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2023 at 1:00pm
I'm wiith A Square I think Indian refurb.
Pictures will give lots of information so E&OEWink
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marco1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2023 at 4:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marco1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2023 at 4:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marco1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2023 at 4:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marco1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2023 at 4:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marco1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2023 at 4:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marco1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2023 at 4:43pm
no sold out of service stamps, nor NZ issue numbers. So unlikely been in NZ army service.
An Indian Refurb seems a likely history.  Appreciate any opinions anyone may have to contribute.
The Suncorite is shabby, so pondering if to take it off completely , or just leave as is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2023 at 5:08pm
the NRF marking makes it a pedaled scheme for sure , how did you come to it being a BSA ? 

the FTR is also quite clear and i would agree new barrel , still thinking in india , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marco1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2023 at 7:37pm
IF the NRF stamp is correct and was manufactured under the peddled scheme, then logic would say that if the BSA stamps were there from the start (so a BSA receiver made as part of the peddled scheme).
and then later undergoing FTR in 1953 in maybe India. 
Other option is that I have read that BSA did a non-military FTR contract in 1953, and maybe used surplus BSA parts then.  lots of question marks.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2023 at 12:55am

The "FTR 1953" is a BSA FTR marking for a non-UK government contract.

Yes - it looks to be an NRF body but it does look to have a very 'clean and sharp' marking. 
It looks very 'fresh' compared to all the other markings.

Remember that SSA / NRF rifles would actually be built using any component from the rifle pool and they are all 'bitsas'.

It would not be impossible for NRF to assemble a rifle using a BSA body which was then 30 odd years later FTR'd by BSA.

History of the 'peddled scheme' :

Standard Small Arms was formed by Mr S J Waring (later Lord Waring, 1860-1940) of the Waring & Gillow concern ,together with a Mr Peterson, who was a man of standing in the Birmingham gun trade. They believed that the skills of the Birmingham gun trade were being neglected and could be more fully utilised in the war effort than they were. They planned to make all of the action and the nosecap, less magazines, screws and pins, and organise eight small firms and a number of individuals in the trade (probably outworkers, of whom a great many worked in the trade at that time). The barrels were to be subcontracted to Westley Richards and the wood to be cut by Waring & Gillow and Rudders & Payne (both these firms eventually dropped out). They contracted to supply rifles at 75/- each, which was the same price that BSA was paid. After a year or so it became apparent that the factory would never produce complete arms and it was instructed to produce four items; body with charger guide, bolt, bolt head and trigger guard. The company was to produce 1500 sets of components a week, rising to 4,000 when new machinery was installed. Other firms were contracted to produce less specialist items, the sets of components being delivered to Enfield for assembly in the bayonet shop, production of which was shifted to Wilkinsons and Sanderson Brothers & Newbold.
The downside of this scheme was that it only allowed for the exact number of components needed. Thus assembly of rifles was held up for want of quite minor items which inexperienced firms were struggling to produce. The scheme was revised in 1916 and became known as the Rifle Components Pool, taking every component which the 'Big Three' could make in excess of their complete rifle production as well as all that Standard Small Arms could turn out, and those produced by the 'peddled scheme' firms. Ordnance could also draw on the pool for repair parts. A considerable stock of components was built up so that any of the Big Three could draw on it if short of some item, and this was done continuously by LSA, and occasionally by BSA, and by Enfield (the pool being on the spot). Standard Small Arms did not attain an output of 2,000 bodies a week until April 1917 and two years after the start of work only 5-6,000 had been produced. By this time SSA were in financial difficulties and a government loan had to be made to keep them going. On June 1st 1918 the factory became National Rifle Factory No.1 with Mr Peterson as superintendent and instructed to prepare for manufacture of components of the Farquhar-Hill automatic rifle, although NRF-marked SMLE bodies were made after this. SSA seem to have turned out 2,000-4,000 bodies a week, depending on the Ministry of Munitions' requirements at the time.

 

From the records of the ‘National’ factories :

 

The National Factory Scheme

 

In August 1914 the state-owned ordnance factories were providing the Army with about a third of its weapons and at this time there were only sixteen firms tendering for War Office munitions contracts:

WG Armstrong Whitworth & Co. Ltd. 

Harper Sons & Bean Ltd.

William Beardmore & Company

Head Wrightson & Co.

Cammell Laird & Company

Kings Norton Metal Co.

Coventry Ordnance Works

The Projectile Co. (1902) Ltd.

d**k Kerr & Company

Rees Roturbo Manufacturing Co.

The Electric & Ordnance Accessories Co.

Vickers Ltd.

T Firth & Sons

J & P Hill

Hadfields Ltd.

Watson Laidlaw & Co.

 

The first few months of the Ministry’s existence saw the establishment of an imposing group of national factories so that by the end of December 1915, there were 73 new sites. The new factories would be Government property and the armament firms were responsible for the design, construction and to provide managers to run them as agents for the Ministry. These were in addition to the Royal Factories conceded from the War Office at Enfield Lock, Farnborough, Waltham Abbey and Woolwich. By the end of the war, this array of national factories had increased, both in number and in the variety of the products. Over 218 new or adapted factories .(so, for example as the Standard Small Arms factory failed to achieve its targets it was ‘taken over’ by the Government with the old SSA managing it) were in operation and covered not only every kind of munitions, from cannon and aeroplanes to small-arms ammunition, but also centres for the production of ball-bearings and concrete slabs. 

 

 

Birmingham NRF No.1 (Lench Street)

 

Management: Standard Small Arms Company Ltd. Products: Farquahar-Hill automatic rifle. Notes: abandoned in October 1918 before production started.

 

Birmingham NRF No. 2 (Garrrison Lane)

 

Management: Standard Small Arms Company Ltd. Products: Fraquahaer-Hill automatic rifle. Notes: abandoned in October 1918 before production started.

 

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