Enfield-Rifles.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Enfields > After Market Enfields
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Central  Bisley sight.
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Central Bisley sight.

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
shiloh View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 08 2019
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1113
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shiloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Central Bisley sight.
    Posted: September 18 2022 at 9:27am
Was at a gun show this morning and picked up a Central sight.
I know it needs a longer trigger guard screw(need one of those), Not sure how the safety works, maybe a special spring?, will need one of those, and the parker hale aperture has been gutted, so i`ll need one of those as well.
Any suggestions or help, feel free to chime in.
Hoping to be able to get this up and running for my 1915, then I might be able to hit something with it lol.
So in short its complete with base mount minus the above mentioned.
shoot em if you got em
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Honkytonk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2017
Location: Brandon Mb
Status: Offline
Points: 4175
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2022 at 11:57am
I think Shamu just installed one of these.
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 15102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2022 at 5:54pm
Yes, I've just found the last few bits & pieces to fit it!
[EDITED] Congratulations you have the "No1" mount, so it will attach to an SMLE

I'm not sure of the "Bisley" nomenclature, they came in several small variations. Mine is a Mk4, what, if anything is stamped on the rear face of the elevator. (L-shaped top half)? Does it say 7.62, or .303 anywhere?
Some were 1/2MOA clicks, some 1/4 MOA & even more 1/3rd MOA! Mine is 1/2 MOA.

The safety uses a slim coil spring, replacing the existing washer & the shaft extends through the lower rear hole in the mount. I couldn't find an original one spring but a pair of spring washers of this type did the job perfectly!
The grooves on the mount plate are all unique, even though they all look the same. This replaces the need for "Matching" upper & lower assemblies.
That's not an original mounting bolt BTW, but it probably works fine, the original is a "LeverLock" screw from Omark, they are rarer than rocking horse poop. I sourced one from Australia as there is no record of one in the USA!
Look carefully at the bottom rear mount hole! It should have a threaded adjusting screw, screwed into it. The rear trigger guard screw goes through the center. That is used to level the sight when installing basically you tighten/ loosen it to "square the arm" with the existing rear-sight of your rifle.
You sight in at 100yds, ignoring the sliding zero plates when dead nutz on you back of the screws & slide the scale plates to "0" & "0", from then on you "count clicks" for different ranges, but in practice the engraved scales are close enough for a 180 Gr full house load to 400yds. Anything else you use the clicks & keep good notes.
If you can find Parker-Hale screws for a PH-5A P-H5c or similar, depending on the rifle you're using those will work fine as substitute!
Apex Fasteners - Spring Washer

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 15102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2022 at 6:11pm
more:
Some pics:
There really isn't a "manual" for these. What little I have is what passes for one though.

3/16th x 32 TPI thread

“Central Leverlok” screw.
Aka“quick release clamp screw”
Also used on “A.E. Clark” & “Linx” sights
Eyepiece threads
Arm

9.5mm female For “Centra” or “Gehnamm”

or adapter to 7/32” male thread (Parker-Hale)

a couple of "almost right" screws that work. They have these at "Home Despot" in the "hardware aisle" as they are used as electrical screws here. They're a tad off, but its such a short threaded hole they'll work in a pinch.

This is the correct "LeverLoc". You can also (just) see the spring washers, The "Gehlen" adapter to P-H (the knurled cylinder in front of the 6-hole eyepiece,you may, or may not have this) & the "elevator" in the rearmost of several mounting holes.


Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
shiloh View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 08 2019
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1113
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shiloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2022 at 2:11am
Thanx for the reply, very helpful.

The peep aperture on the one I acquired is a PH60 albeit gutted, I`ll try to find a 6 hole disc and screw but doubtful, probably just find a replacement.
The mounting bracket I guess could be universal if you`d want to drill a hole in your N04 butt socket, I`ll be using this with my 1915 endfield lock.
Now the screw that holds the upper part to the lower has Central stamped on its face so I`ll assume its correct to this set up. The one I got is the exact same as the one pictured in the link I posted.
I have to ask though, what in blazes is that superfluous knurled brass screws` purpose in life, I`ve not seen it in any pics on line?
And yes mine has the lower adjusting insert, very clever, does away with having to use shims.
So all in all, my central is pretty complete save the aperture and a extended rear trigger guard screw, I`ll be visiting my local smithy to see if he may have one or at least make one for me, he may even have some PH parts laying around.

One Q regarding the safety lever, My rifle has volley sights so does not have the notched disc, will I need to get that notched disc/spacer thingy, or just use an appropriate sized compression spring and some washers?
shoot em if you got em
Back to Top
shiloh View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 08 2019
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1113
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shiloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2022 at 2:13am
I should also note that on the elevator, it is noted that one click equals one inch at 100yrds. dosn`t seem that fine of an adjustment.
shoot em if you got em
Back to Top
Strangely Brown View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: April 05 2022
Location: Wiltshire
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strangely Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2022 at 3:14am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Does it say 7.62, or .303 anywhere?

An often asked question in the UK regarding older sights. 
I have little knowledge of Central sights but I have to say I like the look of this one very much!

When the question is asked of AJ Parker & Parker-Hale sights the clue is to be found on the range scale; 303 sights go up to 1200 yards and 7.62mm sights to a 1000. 

I still encounter shooters who don't understand that MoA is universal regardless of whatever rifle it goes on! 
Mick
Back to Top
shiloh View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 08 2019
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1113
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shiloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2022 at 6:06am
Originally posted by Strangely Brown Strangely Brown wrote:

Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Does it say 7.62, or .303 anywhere?

An often asked question in the UK regarding older sights. 
I have little knowledge of Central sights but I have to say I like the look of this one very much!

When the question is asked of AJ Parker & Parker-Hale sights the clue is to be found on the range scale; 303 sights go up to 1200 yards and 7.62mm sights to a 1000. 

I still encounter shooters who don't understand that MoA is universal regardless of whatever rifle it goes on! 


It does not indicate calibre, but the elevation scale goes to nearly 1300, so I`ll assume .303.

Or even understand what an MoA is.....
shoot em if you got em
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 15102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2022 at 10:32am
My mistake, sorry. My "universal" has one extra hole that bolts to the No4's safety spring mounting, yours is a Mk1 for the SMLE! You can just see it peeking out from in front of & below the lever lock bolt.

I wish mine had the movement per click info! it has all sorts of stuff stamped in various places but nothing indicating that info! I did check movement on a target & its definitely 1/2" per click @ 100yds. Maybe that's the difference between a "Bisley" & a "No4"? I'll ask my Aussie buddies & see if they know. It does sound odd to have such a coarse adjustment on a sight using a vernier scale though! Comparing the thread pitch between your sight & mine it does seem to have a considerably coarser thread.
It's calibrated to 1300yds BTW.
If you need the slotted washer let me know, I probably have a spare floating about somewhere. Before I found the suitable spring I just used a couple of flat, hard "nylon" washers I found in Home Despot, they were a perfect fit & provided just the right tension to feel the clicks without making the lever way too stiff. I'll have to go look, but I think I still have the rest of the packet of them.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 15102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2022 at 10:49am

This is a reply for a query I sent them some time back you might find it informative.

"You can check if it is 1/2 MOA or 1/3 MOA clicks without the need to fire a shot.

Central No. 4 Sight Patent 139,047 of 13 March 1948.

Production dates from after 1948 (as the 1948 patent is marked on it and patents took up to a year to be reviewed and fully approved - the date is the application date).

Very early production of the No.4 will have a 1/4" thread on the elevation screw, yours is later and will have the smaller 3/16" elevating screw thread. It was probably made in 1960. The No.4 sight had been made and used from as early 1947 but did not receive complete approval from the Australian NRA until 1960.


This was probably the most popular sight ever made in Australia, being is full production for more than 40 years. There would have been tens of thousands of this model made. The No.4 Central was the last model they put into production, and it survived until the changeover from .303 to 7.62 mm in 1969.


This sight is still widely used for 7.62 mm rifles to this day, but will of course have a 7.62 elevation scale fitted.


You have the correct plate and sight for your No.1 Mk III rifle. It should have 1/2 minute graduations. You can check by aligning the two zero marks and counting the number of clicks from there to 20. If 40 clicks it is a half minute sight, if 60 clicks it may be the later 7.62 mm 1/3 minute sight. Only rarely will it be 80 clicks, as this was the 1/4 minute sight usually used by .22 target rifle shooters.


Half minute clicks give 1/2" adjustment per 100 yards. At 200 yards each click is 1", at 300 1 1/2", at 400 it gives 2". Alternately in metres each click is about 15 mm per 100 metres (30 at 200, 45 at 300 etc.) The wind-arm adjustment will work the same and have the same adjustment, but you need a wind chart for the cartridge used, and expressed in minutes. +++++


The Central also came as a "metric" range version with 1/3 minute clicks. Three clicks at 100 metres gave a minute of angle. Therefore for windage if 1/3 minute clicks: 3 clicks give 1 inch at 100 yards 3 clicks give 3 inch at 300 yards (1 click per inch) 3 clicks give 5 inch at 500 yards 3 clicks give 6 inch at 600 yards (1 click per 2 inch) 3 clicks give 7 inch at 700 yards 3 clicks give 8 inch at 800 yards 3 clicks give 9 inch at 900 yards (1 click per 3 inch) 3 clicks give 10 inch at 1000 yards"

The sights originally came in a "tin can" a bit like an "Altiods tin" & were wrapped in a vapor rust reducing paper which was a combination advert for Central products & the (very minimal) instructions!

Here's a copy of that paper.


For the 6 aperture peep check out this guy on E-Bay, I've used him for several target irons searches & found him good & reasonably priced.

artiozen2015

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 4477
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2022 at 11:26am
Of course, the range scale is of little use unless you are shooting the same ammunition that the scale is made for.  In that case, it should be fairly close, but don’t expect it to be right on. 

I don’t pay much attention to the range scale, but I do use the MOA scale by recording the elevation settings for each range (distance) I shoot at for each load I develop and for each rifle.  That’s typically at 100, 200, 300 and 600 yards.  Also at 800, 900 and 1000 yds when I have access to the long ranges.


Back to Top
Strangely Brown View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: April 05 2022
Location: Wiltshire
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strangely Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2022 at 11:40am
The very basic way to find out what a "click" is worth on any sight is simply to count the clicks for 5 MoA which is the distance between two of the engraved lines on the sight face, 10 clicks = 1/2 MoA 20 clicks = 1/4 MoA.
I actually had to do this last Thursday at Bisley when offered an AJ Parker 4/47 for a No.4 7.62mm build that's being done for me. 

Mick
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 15102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2022 at 11:42am
^^^ This ^^^
I bought a 4 pack of small, 3X5", spiral bound notepads one for each rifle. They're small enough to fit in a shirt pocket & I use them for notes.

Couple of views of the sight & mount to better show some of the features we're discussing




Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 4477
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2022 at 11:59am
Originally posted by Strangely Brown Strangely Brown wrote:

The very basic way to find out what a "click" is worth on any sight is simply to count the clicks for 5 MoA which is the distance between two of the engraved lines on the sight face, 10 clicks = 1/2 MoA 20 clicks = 1/4 MoA.
I actually had to do this last Thursday at Bisley when offered an AJ Parker 4/47 for a No.4 7.62mm build that's being done for me. 


Yes, that is exactly what I do.  I have both 1/2 and 1/4 MOA click PH 5c rear sights.  They can be identified by the adjustment knob shapes, rounded upper edge is the 1/2 minute knob, the square/cylindrical shape is the 1/4 minute knob.  But if in doubt, count clicks to move the scale 5 MOA (major index mark).




Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 15102
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2022 at 12:28pm
One thing I've discovered.
Your "Bisley" is an earlier version, they were made for over 40 years & some changes happen during that long a run.
If you look at the elevation screws you'll see yours is larger & coarser threaded, this may simply be why its 1" clicks, because the machinery to cut the threads that fine-pitched & slender didn't exist in the earlier days?
I sent an inquiry to "The Antipodes" Big smile & am awaiting a reply which I'll post when it arrives.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
shiloh View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 08 2019
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1113
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shiloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2022 at 12:48pm
No where on my sight does it indicate Australia, only Central Bisley Model.
The patent dates on both the base and sight indicate 1935.
On the left side of the windage scale is R.D. on the right side is a what I assume to be a serial#, 16425, so these are on the forward facing side of the scale(where it folds over),  and where horizontal arm meets with the elevation scale is says 1" per 100yrds.
The elevation scale goes to 1200 yrds and has 10 clicks per 5MoA, so 1/2 Moa?

The safety I got sorted out, I found a notched safety washer amongst my box of MkIII goodies, and an appropriate sized compression spring in another box of odds and sods.

All I really need is an extended rear trigger guard screw and a complete aperture. I`m going to contact Elwood Epps tomorrow and see if they can help, before going to flea bay(I hate dealing on there). No one locally can help or even offer any advice or leads, even my local smithy seemed dis interested.
Two little things that`l prove next to impossible to find I`m sure.

There is however a shop in Sudbury that might have what I`m after, I`ll be calling there shortly.
shoot em if you got em
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.