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Correct rear sight pin?

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Scott302 View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 13 2015 at 11:07am
1917 BSA No.1 MkIII*

Is this the correct pivot pin or is it supposed to have the three piece pivot pin, washer and retainer pin arrangement??
Thanks,
Scott
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musketjon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote musketjon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2015 at 1:52pm
I'm no expert by a long shot, but my 1916 BSA No1 MkIII* has the three piece sight pin.
Jon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2015 at 6:11am
I believe Sarge made a reference to this type of sight pin in a recent thread. I'll see if I can find the reference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2015 at 8:54am
I was under the impression that the three pin arrangement was correct too.  The sight is original to the gun.  I found a No.1 Mk.III (supposedly) sight with the three pin set up but the shaft diameter is larger than what I have.  Would different models have different pin shaft diameters???
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Scott
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2015 at 12:46pm
I believe both are correct, Skennertons book shows both types fitted but could not find a reference as to why there is a difference. I expect the single pin may have been either just cost cutting or possibly a later FTR replacement. I would not change it if I were you; unless it's worn out and you have a loose sight.
 I'm not really the person to ask though and I hope our more experienced members will confirm exactly the reason for it's fitment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 11:23am
If I assume the sight base is original, and there is no evidence that it is not since the barrel and rear sight are original, I can see no marks that would indicate that a shouldered pin and washer were ever present. No witness marks, wear, etc.  My intent is to bring it back to the way it was in 1917.
Scott
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 12:40pm
Ayup chaps.
The original rear-sight hinge pin was as shown below...
 
 
During FTR's in the 30's to 50's, the original pins were replaced on rifles needing repair to the sights with a straight pin that was punched fitted in place.. from both ends. This means that the pin was punched in place, then the ends splayed. (see below).
 
 
Replacing the rear-sight cap was also a part of many FTR's (see below).
 
 
"Scott302"... in answer to your question about different pin diameters for differing models... all SMLE rear-sight hinge pins are same diameter.
This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 1:12pm
Well cr*p, that means a date with the hammer and punch.  Any one know where I can get an early rear sight cap??
Thanks,
Scott
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 4:14pm
Scott.... Liberty Tree Collectors.
 
 
There is no need to remove the original rear-sight bar for now... just the cap. These LTC items come with the Mk.3* rear-sight bar which are stamped with a WW2 date. You'll need to file the underneath of the screw flat (due to the end being splayed), then partially punch the screw out. It will then be an easy job to use a screwdriver to remove the screw fully.
 
WW1 Mk.3 rear-sight bars with original 3-part hinge pins do come along from time to time. In fact, try Numrich Arms for that part. Or, you could search on ebay. Several have been offered on the UK site quite recently. Here is one that is for sale now....
 
I've purchased several items from this chap.... he's superb to deal with.
This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 4:31pm
THANKS
I have the correct pin set up already in hand.  With the gun totally disassembled now it'll be easier to remove the old pin.  With the sight bar out I'll install the correct rear sight cap once it comes in from Liberty Tree then put all it back with the 3 piece pin set up.
More questions to follow.
Regards to all,
Scott
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote musketjon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2015 at 7:50pm
Deleted 02/17/15. irrelevant to op's question
JT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2015 at 2:02am
I think it all boils down to personal choice, and what the rifle is used for. What I mean by the latter part of my comment is:- As with my deacts, I use them as an illustration of a timeline for WW1, so they are as they would have been for the manufacture date.
 
Its the same for those who use their SMLE for living history re-enactment events, where integration with the general public is a factor. Someone, at some point in time, will note that the re-enactor has certain features which are not correct for the date being presented, so will question. For some, like myself, its a point of pride and dedication to have everything....  just right.
 
For others, having say... a 1913 SMLE with an 'FTR' date of '22', and sporting the relevant modifications... is all part of the mystique to that particular weapons history.
 
I have a couple of SMLE's with 'FTR's' which I have changed back to WW1 spec's. However, before changing out, I photographed them, and have kept the various parts.
 
As I mentioned...  its personal choice.
This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2015 at 4:44pm
I agree with you completely. My goal is to bring it back to the way it was in 1917 despite the FTR.  It doesn't have the original bolt so I figure I can change the incorrect parts without to much worry.  If everything matched I might think differently.
Scott
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 7:15am
My 1918 LSA Mk III* has the simplified rear sight pin too. It has the original walnut buttstock and australian forestock, rear and front hand guard. I saw a lot of british SMLE's in this same configuration on eGun the last half year.
In Skennertons book are many pictures of australian SMLE's with this pin. In australia it was apparently standard. Therefore i think that my SMLE was repaired in Australia.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 1:22pm
I try not to mess with a rifles evolution if its had a repair or two. The changes and upgrades is what makes them so interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2015 at 9:23am
Originally posted by Homer Homer wrote:

I try not to mess with a rifles evolution if its had a repair or two. The changes and upgrades is what makes them so interesting.
 
Agreed. As in my post above, for re-enactment / living history events... sometimes its the period that one portrays which becomes paramount, so the smaller details are just as important to the overall picture. After all... as an overkill point... one would not use a Pattern - 1853 Enfield Musket for an 1815 Waterloo scenario.
 
But as I mentioned, for general shooting, its basically a personal choice as to what one changes..  if anything.
 
In this particular case, its wished to show the SMLE as it would have been in 1917. So any post WW1 amendments / upgrades will be very out of place. Items which changed over the course of the SMLE's service life, and need to be checked for period WW1 authenticity / historical accuracy are:-
Cocking piece, Trigger guard, Rear sight hinge pin / bar / cap, Nosecap, Butt-stock swivel & bracket, Rifle sling.
 
I included the rifle sling for this is quite often an overlooked item.
1) For the WW1 period, only brass fittings were used.
2) The colour for the material was khaki... in various shades.
 
This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!
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