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DZ 1944 303 brass

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Pukka Bundook View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pukka Bundook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 06 2015 at 6:18am
Morning Shamu,
 
No, it's not an old sporting round. definitely painted tip.  I'll ask my daughter what colour she thinks it is, in case my description is off!
Will be back.......
Thanks for looking though!!
 
Richard.
 
Edited to say that my daughter could see traces of Red on the nose, the 'Gold" I could see was the shiny metal of the bullet jacket, much brighter than the rest of the jacket where the paint had peeled off.
Sorry for the false information, it is just a tracer!
 
Thanks for looing Shamu!
 
Richard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JDugas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2021 at 2:25pm
I know this is old. 

But while I was looking at more information about this brass, since I have plenty, I found out a while agothat you must be careful in reading the actual markings; 

People sometimes see DI Z, when it's actually written: D| Z

D|Z is Indian Graphite Glazed. 

Manufacture of Dum Dum, Calcuta, India. 
It should have the unusual crimp on the neck, being an horizontal line. 

Hope it helps. 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2021 at 3:59pm
The Dl headstamp for the Canadian made Defence Industries WWII Mk VIIz ammunition has been confused with the Indian ammunition in several online posts I’ve seen before.  

In the photo below, the middle pair of cases are Defence Industries brass.  It’s quite good, lasts for many reloads and the rims measure 0.062 - 0.064.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JDugas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2021 at 4:59pm
Yes, I agree, they are both similar, hence why looking at the crimp may help; 

Here's a picture of the D| Z from India. 

First image shows the headstamp, with the I being a bit lower. 

Second image shows the unusual crimp. 



as from Dave Cushman: 

D|, DF, N| or S|
Indian Government Ammunition Factory, Dum Dum, Calcutta, India. This factory manufactured cartridges for use by the British Army in India as well as the Indian Army. In 1918 this factory was capable of producing at the rate of about 10 million rounds per month. The example at right is of their manufacture. The far right image shows the unusual neck crimp consisting of three parts of the circumference of a circle and three small triangular indents. They produced .303 cartridges in... BCMK2, BCMK2 Special, BCMK6 and BCMK7, BSRP I.P. Mk 1*, BLK, Dummy Drill Mk 1. IP,and IP No 2 Mk 1

DA

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2021 at 4:23am
This is one of the websites that has been disputed before. 

 I think the photo above is actually a Canadian Defence Industries case.  They appear identical to mine, which I know for sure are Canadian as I got them from an unopened 48 round cartons with Canadian I.G. Paper wrapping.  The “l” appears elongated and it has the same circumferential crimp indentations. 

Note the case is Boxer primed.  Apparently, the Dum Dum Arsenal only made Berdan primed Mk 7 cases. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JDugas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2021 at 5:26am
Between a website and you sir opening a box of Canadian brass, I will believe in you and will stand corrected! 
Thank you! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2021 at 6:46am
Originally posted by JDugas JDugas wrote:

I know this is old. 

But while I was looking at more information about this brass, since I have plenty


JDugas, I see you live in Canada.  Where did you get the brass?  There was a lot of Surplus Canadian made Mk 7 and 7z ammunition in circulation in Canada.  It’s more likely the brass you have is indeed Defence Industries.  I’ve not seen any Indian made .303 cases.  

I read a story some years ago of millions of rounds of .303 being cooked off (intentionally to destroy the ammo) at the ammunition depot in Camp Borden, Ontario. What a waste…

I have about 1000 rounds of Dl ‘43 and ‘44 still in unopened cartons that my Dad had acquired in the ‘60’s. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shiloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2021 at 3:14pm
DI Z is Canadian made
I still have 43 and 44 brass from surplus ammo my brother got me for Christmas many moons ago.
Bestest 303  ammo I`ve ever shot, consistent, clean burning and hit every groundhog I ever pointed it at.
There is still some around, but its stupid expensive. The last 6million rounds I knew of was destroyed at Det Angus in 1996, coal shovels full at a time into there cooking off furnace. Cry What a shame Canada stopped surplussing to its citizens.  Stupid gov`t

How I know this, I was dispatched from Pettawawa to Angus to pick up ammo for a live fire exercise and when I got got there I asked what the loud popcorn noise was all about, and trust me from one Sargent to another I tried to get a couple shovels full......

Orders from NDHQ, NO ACEPTIONS, destruction orders. Man that made me sick!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2022 at 5:26am
Shiloh, I must have heard that story from you.  What a terrible waste.  

The powder in the cartridges experienced a low rate of deterioration in the relatively cool yearly average temperatures in Canada.  Dad had kept the ammo in our basement, which rarely got above 70 deg.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2022 at 5:26am
To close the loop on this, below is an unopened and an opened box of Canadian made Defence Industries (Dl) Mk VIIz ball ammo.  The plant was located in Montreal. Box on right is 1943, box on left is 1944 produced ammo.  Non-corrosive boxer primed.  

Shoots about 1.5 to 2 MOA which is excellent considering it is wartime manufacture. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2022 at 7:35am
Found another 12 cartons (48 rounds per carton) of the Dl 1943 VIIz ammo.  Only one of the cartons has been opened, the others are still in the original paper wrapped seal.  I think I’ve got about 1000 rounds total.  About another 500 rounds of DAC (Dominion Arsenal) 1956, which also shoots good. 

Not sure what to do with this ammo.  Definitely shootable, and very good brass for reloading, but this may have some collector value now. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shiloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2022 at 8:32am
It has great value here in Canada because there isn`t any here in worth while quantities.
Before our gov`t abolished surplus public sales(thanx Pierre), most of it went else where, and dirt cheap practically given away.
The thousand rounds my little brother got me way back when, in today's money is probably about 54cents a round. I think he said he paid $75/1000.
Now a days an unopened pack of 48 DI Z runs about $150, a little over 3 buck a pop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2022 at 8:44am
I looked thru my shooting score book, this Dl ‘43 was the very first ammo I shot from my first rifle (a Fulton Regulated No. 4 with a new barrel).  With aperture sights off the bench, five shot groups at 100 yards averaged 1.5 inches x 2.0 inches.  

After about 200 rounds, I mounted a scope and the groups shrunk to one inch (some as small as 1/2 inch).  Very respectable accuracy.  This was in the mid/late 1990’s when the ammo was already over 50 years old. 
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