Enfield-Rifles.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Enfields > Enfield Bayonets
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Early pre-war RFI 1907
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Early pre-war RFI 1907

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Enfield trader View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: May 11 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 649
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enfield trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Early pre-war RFI 1907
    Posted: May 24 2022 at 6:27pm
Have been told that this is a somewhat rare RFI being that it is pre- WW1. 

Date 7-13 

Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
terrylee View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2014
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 624
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote terrylee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 12:07am
Excellent! First I've seen.
Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member

Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Offline
Points: 13196
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2022 at 8:29pm
im not familiar with the early RFI stuff but yours looks to be in really nice shape , congrats 
Back to Top
lance View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: July 19 2011
Location: Connecticut
Status: Offline
Points: 14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2022 at 1:58am
Great find!  RFI only produced around 4,000 examples in 1913-14 so any examples is rare.
Back to Top
Enfield trader View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: May 11 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 649
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enfield trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2022 at 8:00pm
That’s for posting that info on the bayonet. The bayonet goes well with the 1918 RFI SMLE. 
Back to Top
terrylee View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2014
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 624
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote terrylee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2022 at 12:22am
The cause of my envy!





Back to Top
Enfield trader View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: May 11 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 649
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enfield trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2022 at 6:24am
Very nice - I’ll get some pics of mine
Back to Top
lance View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: July 19 2011
Location: Connecticut
Status: Offline
Points: 14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2022 at 5:05pm
Here you go Terry!  FYI my '11 is 22036
Back to Top
terrylee View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2014
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 624
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote terrylee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2022 at 1:16am
A really excellent combination for a collection!  Unfortunately, my Ishapore Pat. 1907 is dated 1940.  However, it can still be historically linked to the rifle since my Ishapore SMLE Mk III's markings indicate that it was from the batch imported by South Africa from India during WW II.
Back to Top
Sarge View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 20 2013
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 495
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2022 at 3:05am
Gentlemen....

We all like to find and aquire unique examples for our collections. However, in this case I feel that it may be a tad premature in celebration. To my eyes... it looks as though foul-play is evident. 

If you look to the rear of '7' as marked withing the red square, you'll not a smaller but much fainter figure '7'. Also... please study the area around the figure '3' as highlighted withing the second red square. You will not a vert faint outline of a figure '8', to which the '3' has been very carefully laid atop of. In my opinion, this RFI was actually manufactured in '7-18' ---> July 1918.

Sarge. 


This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!
Back to Top
Goosic View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 7608
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2022 at 3:51am
Sarge. I cleaned the photo up a bit and found another 7 next to the 13. The 13 does not appear to have been tampered with rather the whole date code was scrubbed and an earlier one restamped. It is interesting to note that, all of the 7's are in the exact same font...
Back to Top
Sarge View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 20 2013
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 495
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2022 at 10:53am
Goosic...

Both fonts certainly appear to be the same, but the fainter example being the smaller of the two. There certainly does look to have been some scullduggery and shenanigans applied to this 07. Where those who are not entirely honest in their dealings are involved, there is no telling as to what they are thinking when carrying out their deceptions. One factor however is a constant-----> MONEY. 

I've seen some really terrible tampering's in my time, ( this is one of the better ones ) trying to be what they ( after a simple glance ) obviously are not. After studying the shadow of the erased year stamp you found ( which I must admit to not seeing initially ). It does appear that the complete original manufacture date is - 7/18. Examples of RFI for WW1 are quite rare, so producing an example for pre-war would bring in quite a premium from dedicated collectors. I don't wish to know what you paid for this example, but hope it wasn't too high above the average for WW1 '07'. 

I've learned over the years to examine a piece more objectively than simply looking at the obvious. Yes... like many of us, I was caught out in my early years by such examples

Your RFI example is certainly a good talking point, and leads itself open to quite a lot more in-depth research.


This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!
Back to Top
lance View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: July 19 2011
Location: Connecticut
Status: Offline
Points: 14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2022 at 3:54pm
I disagree, I think you still have an original 1913 manufactured bayonet that has only been de-hooked.  The faint ghosting marks are the same font suggesting either it was poorly struck the first time or  the blade was not removed and the stamp "rested" on the blade prior to its complete removal giving a ghost mark.

The 1918 Ishapore P1907 bayonet font is very different. 

First it is a much heavier stamp, removal would be hard. 
Second the size of the markings, especially the"RFI" is much larger, this size change occurred in 1917
Third, the Monarch Crown changed from a flat base to a curved base in 1915-16
Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member

Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Offline
Points: 13196
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2022 at 4:55pm
with the indians propensity for scrubbing and refurbing i wonder if this might have been redone ? im not disputing that the coincidence of the seventh month being repeated might make one question that , but then again we must throw out the possibilities in these discussions , 
Back to Top
Sarge View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 20 2013
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 495
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2022 at 9:31am
'Lance'... 'A Square 10'.. This is why I love this forum. The ability to voice our opinions in regard to a specific piece, then have a damned good ole fashioned in-depth discussion... without anyone becoming offended.

'Lance'... There is a very simple way to ascertain if the main discussion item is in fact a 'Quillion' Removed example. The profile of such an item is slimmer to that of a post 1913 production item.

'Enfield Trader'... would it be possible for you to post an end-on profile photo of the lower portion of the bayonets crossguard?  



This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 15839
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2022 at 6:41pm
^^^^
this.We can discuss & have opposing views but its all together a bunch of "gun guys" chewing the fat.
THIS is why I like this place & will fight to l\keep it this way. For all of us.


Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.