Early pre-war RFI 1907

Excellent! First I've seen.

Great find! RFI only produced around 4,000 examples in 1913-14 so any examples is rare.

The cause of my envy!

Here you go Terry! FYI my '11 is 22036

Gentlemen....

We all like to find and aquire unique examples for our collections. However, in this case I feel that it may be a tad premature in celebration. To my eyes... it looks as though foul-play is evident.

If you look to the rear of '7' as marked withing the red square, you'll not a smaller but much fainter figure '7'. Also... please study the area around the figure '3' as highlighted withing the second red square. You will not a vert faint outline of a figure '8', to which the '3' has been very carefully laid atop of. In my opinion, this RFI was actually manufactured in '7-18' ---> July 1918.

Sarge.

This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!

Goosic...

Both fonts certainly appear to be the same, but the fainter example being the smaller of the two. There certainly does look to have been some scullduggery and shenanigans applied to this 07. Where those who are not entirely honest in their dealings are involved, there is no telling as to what they are thinking when carrying out their deceptions. One factor however is a constant-----> MONEY.

I've seen some really terrible tampering's in my time, ( this is one of the better ones ) trying to be what they ( after a simple glance ) obviously are not. After studying the shadow of the erased year stamp you found ( which I must admit to not seeing initially ). It does appear that the complete original manufacture date is - 7/18. Examples of RFI for WW1 are quite rare, so producing an example for pre-war would bring in quite a premium from dedicated collectors. I don't wish to know what you paid for this example, but hope it wasn't too high above the average for WW1 '07'.

I've learned over the years to examine a piece more objectively than simply looking at the obvious. Yes... like many of us, I was caught out in my early years by such examples

Your RFI example is certainly a good talking point, and leads itself open to quite a lot more in-depth research.

This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!

with the indians propensity for scrubbing and refurbing i wonder if this might have been redone ? im not disputing that the coincidence of the seventh month being repeated might make one question that , but then again we must throw out the possibilities in these discussions ,

^^^^

this.We can discuss & have opposing views but its all together a bunch of "gun guys" chewing the fat.

THIS is why I like this place & will fight to l\keep it this way. For all of us.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)

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Enfield trader Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: May 11 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 649	Post Options Post Reply Quote Enfield trader Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Early pre-war RFI 1907 Posted: May 24 2022 at 6:27pm
	Have been told that this is a somewhat rare RFI being that it is pre- WW1. Date 7-13

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terrylee Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: December 30 2014 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 624	Post Options Post Reply Quote terrylee Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 25 2022 at 12:07am
	Excellent! First I've seen.

A square 10 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 13196	Post Options Post Reply Quote A square 10 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 25 2022 at 8:29pm
	im not familiar with the early RFI stuff but yours looks to be in really nice shape , congrats

lance Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: July 19 2011 Location: Connecticut Status: Offline Points: 14	Post Options Post Reply Quote lance Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 26 2022 at 1:58am
	Great find! RFI only produced around 4,000 examples in 1913-14 so any examples is rare.

Enfield trader Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: May 11 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 649	Post Options Post Reply Quote Enfield trader Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 26 2022 at 8:00pm
	That’s for posting that info on the bayonet. The bayonet goes well with the 1918 RFI SMLE.

terrylee Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: December 30 2014 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 624	Post Options Post Reply Quote terrylee Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 27 2022 at 12:22am
	The cause of my envy!

Enfield trader Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: May 11 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 649	Post Options Post Reply Quote Enfield trader Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 27 2022 at 6:24am
	Very nice - I’ll get some pics of mine

lance Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: July 19 2011 Location: Connecticut Status: Offline Points: 14	Post Options Post Reply Quote lance Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 27 2022 at 5:05pm
	Here you go Terry! FYI my '11 is 22036

terrylee Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: December 30 2014 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 624	Post Options Post Reply Quote terrylee Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 28 2022 at 1:16am
	A really excellent combination for a collection! Unfortunately, my Ishapore Pat. 1907 is dated 1940. However, it can still be historically linked to the rifle since my Ishapore SMLE Mk III's markings indicate that it was from the batch imported by South Africa from India during WW II.

Sarge Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: April 20 2013 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 495	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sarge Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 02 2022 at 3:05am
	Gentlemen.... We all like to find and aquire unique examples for our collections. However, in this case I feel that it may be a tad premature in celebration. To my eyes... it looks as though foul-play is evident. If you look to the rear of '7' as marked withing the red square, you'll not a smaller but much fainter figure '7'. Also... please study the area around the figure '3' as highlighted withing the second red square. You will not a vert faint outline of a figure '8', to which the '3' has been very carefully laid atop of. In my opinion, this RFI was actually manufactured in '7-18' ---> July 1918. Sarge.
	This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!

Goosic Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 7608	Post Options Post Reply Quote Goosic Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 02 2022 at 3:51am
	Sarge. I cleaned the photo up a bit and found another 7 next to the 13. The 13 does not appear to have been tampered with rather the whole date code was scrubbed and an earlier one restamped. It is interesting to note that, all of the 7's are in the exact same font...

Sarge Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: April 20 2013 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 495	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sarge Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 03 2022 at 10:53am
	Goosic... Both fonts certainly appear to be the same, but the fainter example being the smaller of the two. There certainly does look to have been some scullduggery and shenanigans applied to this 07. Where those who are not entirely honest in their dealings are involved, there is no telling as to what they are thinking when carrying out their deceptions. One factor however is a constant-----> MONEY. I've seen some really terrible tampering's in my time, ( this is one of the better ones ) trying to be what they ( after a simple glance ) obviously are not. After studying the shadow of the erased year stamp you found ( which I must admit to not seeing initially ). It does appear that the complete original manufacture date is - 7/18. Examples of RFI for WW1 are quite rare, so producing an example for pre-war would bring in quite a premium from dedicated collectors. I don't wish to know what you paid for this example, but hope it wasn't too high above the average for WW1 '07'. I've learned over the years to examine a piece more objectively than simply looking at the obvious. Yes... like many of us, I was caught out in my early years by such examples Your RFI example is certainly a good talking point, and leads itself open to quite a lot more in-depth research.
	This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!

lance Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: July 19 2011 Location: Connecticut Status: Offline Points: 14	Post Options Post Reply Quote lance Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 03 2022 at 3:54pm
	I disagree, I think you still have an original 1913 manufactured bayonet that has only been de-hooked. The faint ghosting marks are the same font suggesting either it was poorly struck the first time or the blade was not removed and the stamp "rested" on the blade prior to its complete removal giving a ghost mark. The 1918 Ishapore P1907 bayonet font is very different. First it is a much heavier stamp, removal would be hard. Second the size of the markings, especially the"RFI" is much larger, this size change occurred in 1917 Third, the Monarch Crown changed from a flat base to a curved base in 1915-16

A square 10 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 13196	Post Options Post Reply Quote A square 10 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 03 2022 at 4:55pm
	with the indians propensity for scrubbing and refurbing i wonder if this might have been redone ? im not disputing that the coincidence of the seventh month being repeated might make one question that , but then again we must throw out the possibilities in these discussions ,

Sarge Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: April 20 2013 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 495	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sarge Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 04 2022 at 9:31am
	'Lance'... 'A Square 10'.. This is why I love this forum. The ability to voice our opinions in regard to a specific piece, then have a damned good ole fashioned in-depth discussion... without anyone becoming offended. 'Lance'... There is a very simple way to ascertain if the main discussion item is in fact a 'Quillion' Removed example. The profile of such an item is slimmer to that of a post 1913 production item. 'Enfield Trader'... would it be possible for you to post an end-on profile photo of the lower portion of the bayonets crossguard?
	This is MY rifle, there are many like, but this one... is MINE!

Shamu Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 15839	Post Options Post Reply Quote Shamu Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 04 2022 at 6:41pm
	^^^^ this.We can discuss & have opposing views but its all together a bunch of "gun guys" chewing the fat. THIS is why I like this place & will fight to l\keep it this way. For all of us.
	Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)