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Enfield .303 for hunting

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peashooter View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 04 2012 at 2:09am
I love my SMLE for target shooting but I am toying with the idea of buying a .303 for hunting with, I use a Parker Hale .270 at the moment but I do love my old Enfields. So do I need to get a sporterised Enfield .303 or can I hunt with a standard ex-military rifle. I would like to have the ability to add a scope but also shoot with just the iron sights

So be gentle with me and please give me your opinions.

thanks
Richard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2012 at 9:04am
I prefer an Enfield that has not been butchered, bubba'ed, sporterized, defaced, etc myself. You can hunt with either one. The Military version makes in more difficult to mount a scope, there is however mounts that do not deface the rifle. The sporterized version and lighter and makes it slightly easier to transport in the field. The .303 is more then enough to take any North American Game for sure. Good luck and keep us posted on your hunting exploits.
 
CM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2012 at 3:16pm
To conform with deer stalking laws in the UK you must use soft nosed ammunition  with a muzzle velocity of not less than 2,459 feet/ second and muzzle energy of 1.700 foot pounds. 150 grain soft nosed should cover the legislation, 41.7 grains of Vit N133 behind a 150 grain bullet will give you 2949fps thats a top end load, bottom end load is 38.4 grains of N133 will give a velocity of 2753fps anything between the two loads should be well within the requiremints.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2012 at 3:38am
Tony good point I did not even notice he was in the UK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2012 at 5:05am
I wouldn't say my primary hunter was "butchered".Parker-Hale did the conversion.Taken alot of game over the years(2 Moose last Oct).
I have the same 1916 BSA in military config.(my Vimy vet).
Both shoot sweet(its the user thats deficient )
Hoadie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2012 at 5:49am
This is the perfect excuse to spring for a #5, HMG's "official sporterised enfield!"
No, really.LOL
As for a scope & BUIS you're pretty much stuck with the B-Square.Dead


Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2012 at 6:03am
Originally posted by hoadie hoadie wrote:

I wouldn't say my primary hunter was "butchered".Parker-Hale did the conversion.Taken alot of game over the years(2 Moose last Oct).
I have the same 1916 BSA in military config.(my Vimy vet).
Both shoot sweet(its the user thats deficient )
Hoadie
 
Hoadie anytime an enfield is taken from it's original military configuration is a butcher LOL, it's just that some do it better the others LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArcherSix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2012 at 9:39am
I've hunted wild hog in Texas with my #1 MkIII* and handloads with Hornady 150 gr soft points to good effect. My rifle is as issued(as FTR'd?). Anyway, my point is that if you are comfortable with the issue sights, there is no reason to modify the rifle.
 
Go with what you like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote saffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2012 at 10:30pm
To conform with deer stalking laws in the UK you must use soft nosed ammunition  with a muzzle velocity of not less than 2,459 feet/ second and muzzle energy of 1.700 foot pounds
 
 
Another bit of useless legal mumbo jumbo. They are trying the same thing here in South Africa, and it got shot down very quickly. The hunting boys here are very vociferous here, and qucikly put our department of environmental affairs back in their place.
They tried the minimum calibre/bullet weight, that many of us use, but little concern is placed on the bullet construction, meat damage and actual placement. I have seen decimated and serverely wounded game using .270, but minimal meat damage and quick knock down on a 303 using a slower bullet speed.
 
Sorry rant off.
Not a complete idiot. Still missing a few parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2012 at 11:33pm
Saffer in your area what is the most common game hunted?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2012 at 2:06am
It isn't useless legal mumbo jumbo! Stalking in the UK is regulated quite strictly and is designed to give a CLEAN kill without wounding the animal and leaving it to run off and suffer appalling agony. Thats why I told peashooter to use soft nosed 150 grain bullets with a minimum muzzle energy of 1700 foot pounds and a muzzle velocity of 2450 fps which is close to the velocity of a standard 174grain 303 bullet and a lot slower than a 270 winchester or the 270 weatherby magnum. THAT will give him a clean kill on a red stag. Before anybody goes out deer stalking on their own they MUST pass the exams pertaining to the types of deer bullet placement and a marksmanship test and produce the certificate of competence to the land owner BEFORE they are allowed on the land.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cookie Monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2012 at 2:52am
Originally posted by Tony Tony wrote:

It isn't useless legal mumbo jumbo! Stalking in the UK is regulated quite strictly and is designed to give a CLEAN kill without wounding the animal and leaving it to run off and suffer appaling agony. Thats why I told peashooter to use soft nosed 150 grain bullets with a minimum muzzle energy of 1700 foot pounds. THAT will give him a clean kill on a red stag. Before anybody goes out deer stalking on their own they MUST pass the exams pertaining to the types of deer bullet placement and a marksmanship test!!
 

Tony,

What Proficiency tests are required for a Stalking there in the UK. Here in the US it is left up to the individual state. Before anyone in this state is allowed to hunt on their own they must take and pass a Hunters safety course and a Marksmen proficiency test.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote saffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2012 at 3:09am
Originally posted by Cookie Monster Cookie Monster wrote:

Originally posted by Tony Tony wrote:

It isn't useless legal mumbo jumbo! Stalking in the UK is regulated quite strictly and is designed to give a CLEAN kill without wounding the animal and leaving it to run off and suffer appaling agony. Thats why I told peashooter to use soft nosed 150 grain bullets with a minimum muzzle energy of 1700 foot pounds. THAT will give him a clean kill on a red stag. Before anybody goes out deer stalking on their own they MUST pass the exams pertaining to the types of deer bullet placement and a marksmanship test!!
 

Tony,

What Proficiency tests are required for a Stalking there in the UK. Here in the US it is left up to the individual state. Before anyone in this state is allowed to hunt on their own they must take and pass a Hunters safety course and a Marksmen proficiency test.

Tony, I think you missed my point. The very people that often set these laws, have not got the faintest idea about bullet performance, energy and placement. I have seen the effects of a Hornady interlock and interbond on the same animal species, and the results can be staggering. Hit solid shoulder bone, which can be a good placed shot with an interlock bullet, and it will break up badly. However an interbond will perform better, and penetrate the vitals. Net result is a badly wounded animal. 
These laws that get passed, do not often address the vital parts behind good shot placement and bullet construction. As I said previoulsy, they tried it here, but the laws wehere so stupid, that you would need something like 375 to shoot a buck the average size of  25kg-35kg.
We also have to pass a stringent theoritical exam and practical exam, and also attend certain competitive shoots to be able to keep that certification.
My point I am trying to make, is that often laws get passed without consulatation with people who really understand the hunting business and ballistics.
 
Not a complete idiot. Still missing a few parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote saffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2012 at 3:24am
Originally posted by Cookie Monster Cookie Monster wrote:

Saffer in your area what is the most common game hunted?
 
Springbuck (springbok) is the most common. Not the most difficult buck to hunt as they stand out like the national flag, and easy to stalk. A good farm can see these buck re-produce like rabbits.
The meat is fine eating. We get two other springbok speicies, black and white. Not generally hunted due to scarsity.
 
Kudu is probably the next most common hunted, and probably the most difficult. Kudu can stand still behind a tree and you can walk right passed them and not even see them.(GHost in the bush)  Also good eating. Females or young males are better eating. Average weight is 180Kg field dressed. A friend of mine shot an olde female, that came in at 270Kg.
 
Another popular buck is the mountain reedbuck. You got to be fit to hunt this one as it likes mountainous terrain and when they get going all you see is white bums. I have huffed and puffed up many a mountain after these devils. About the same size as a springbok, and certainly worth the challenge.
 
Lastly gemsbok. One of the most dangerous buck we have. IF they get wounded, don't get in front of those horns. Many a hunter has lost his life or been seriously injured by one of the horns. Having a heavy calibre hand gun is good idea for the final shot if mortally wounded. Average weight 120Kg to 180Kg. Good eating. Females are better than males, and generally females are bigger than males. Female horns are longer as well.
 
Eland is the biggest of the antelope (buck) species we have access to. Weights can vary from 300Kg to 450Kg. Thats a lot of meat and this meat is by far the best. For the size of this buck, the meat is probably one of the better venison meats. Very close to beef, but very much more tender and has a suttle texture and flavour that one cannot explain.
Yummy.
 
 
Not a complete idiot. Still missing a few parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2012 at 3:31am
More or less the same as yours we have level 1 and level 2 both tests take up at least a full weekend of lectures and practical work. The exams are very stringent level1 covers recognising sick animals recogniton of the types of deer knowledge of the calibres and legal bullet weights for each species from Red deer, fallow deer,  sika deer, roe deer, chinese water deer and the tiny muntjack which stands around 16 inches high plus a marksmanship test fail any part and you have to resit it all again. Head shots are not permitted chest shots if the animal is head on to the stalker or a bullet placement  from the side just behind the shoulder to take out the heart and lungs Everything is designed to ensure a quick clean kill. Level 2 covers the butchering of the carcass recogniton of parasites within the meat (if any), usually a vet will come and check any carcass which is to be sold to the general public before it is sent out to the game dealer. The forestry commission requires stalkers to have level 1 and level 2 certificates before they will allow stalkers to enter the land, and on estates that have let days the ghilly will take each person to the range to 1 check the shooter is competent and 2 to zero in the sights at 100 yards. Most animals are taken at a maximum range of 100 -150 yards on open moorland and considerably less if woodland stalking.
  The ammunition type and weight is stipulated and anyone found using the "wrong" ammunition is likely to be fined have their vehicle taken and lose their firearms ticket .
Rottie (PitBulls dad.)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peashooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2012 at 3:44am
I did my Level 1 over 4 days at a local rifle range in conjunction with the deer society. I really enjoyed it and learnt a lot, I hear a lot of people complaining about these 2 qualifications/courses but I think they are a good idea.

I use 150grn sierra game king soft point in my .270 and by home loading I have slowed them down a bit because a .270 has a tendency to go straight through when going fast which is no good for a quick clean kill. You can talk all day about bullet weights, calibers and speeds but if you don't put the bullet in the right place you wont get a clean quick kill.

Richard
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