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Enfield No. 4 MK 1/2 - My First

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Goosic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2020 at 1:39am
I can only assume that the serial numbers on the rifle now are from the Ethiopian government. The No4Mk1 was produced at five different plants, each one with its own distinctive serial number. Serial numbers starting with the number 1 afer a letter came from the Maltby plant. Serial numbers starting with the number 2 after a letter were made at the Fazackerly plant. Serial numbers starting with the number 3 after a letter were made at the BSA plant in Shirley. Long Branch and Savage had similar serial numbers but were distinguished by either a L or a C in the middle of the serial numbers. The rifle went through the FTR at the Fazackerly plant but it looks as if the original serial numbers were scrubbed with new ones stamped in their place from the last owners.. The B you mentioned on the safety lever is actually a B superimposed over a L.  That is a Long Branch safety lever. Is there a bolt release behind the charging bridge or is there a slot cut into the raceway near the breech? Unless you can verify any other markings on the rifle i am afraid everything on our end would be a best guess only. Clear and close up photos would help alot in this case as well. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2020 at 1:55am
The cocking piece in the photo looks to be rounded on the bottom at the thumb piece? If this is/was the case. The simple answer would be that someone installed a later design No1Mk111* cocking piece, which is slightly longer than the No4 cocking piece. It will work as far as firing the rifle but the safety catch will not line up properly.  Was removing the firing pin  from the cocking piece difficult or did you end up cutting the firing pin in half and replacing it with a new one? I ask only because the No1Mk111 and the No4 striker and cocking pieces have two different thread pitches and are not interchangeable unless some rethreaded the No1 cocking piece to match the thread pitch on the No4 striker, or vise versa.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2020 at 5:45am
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

Is there a bolt release behind the charging bridge or is there a slot cut into the raceway near the breech? Unless you can verify any other markings on the rifle i am afraid everything on our end would be a best guess only. Clear and close up photos would help alot in this case as well. 

If it’s a Mk 1/2, it will have the bolt release catch and no slot in the receiver raceway for the bolt head. Otherwise, it should have been identified as a Mk 1/3.

Barrel might be in nearly new condition, typically a new Faz barrel installed at FTR.  But other parts would be mixed origins from the FTR. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 36IDRedleg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2020 at 6:11am
There is a bolt release behind the charging bridge. Goosic is correct regarding the mis-function of the old cocking piece. The replacement cocking piece was “plug and play” inside of 5 minutes including cleaning and function check. The barrel is in virtually new condition with the caveat that it was stored dirty and fouled. Extensive cleaning with Butch’s Bore Shine revealed sharp rifling and very low muzzle wear. This rifle shoots 3 MOA with PPU ammo equivalent to MK VII. More photos to come as soon as I can figure out the software idiosyncrasies. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2020 at 2:50pm
You may already know this, but when you screw the cocking piece on to the striker, you want the end of the striker to be about flush with the back of the cocking piece.  Once all assembled, there should be a gap between the back of the bolt and the front edge of the striker in the fired position.  This ensures that the striker is arrested by the collar contacting the back of the bolt head rather than the cocking piece contacting the back of the bolt.  If there is no gap, or a very slight gap, unscrew the cocking piece one turn and check again.  

You also don’t want the cocking piece moving on the striker threads, it needs to be snug for a clean striker release.  If it’s loose, clean the striker threads and apply solder, wipe with a cloth while still liquid to remove excess.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2020 at 6:38pm
ive been reading and a bit confused till now as well , glad we have this sorted out a bit , all my thoughts would have added to the confusion i fear but we are now making progress 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 36IDRedleg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2020 at 5:50pm
One more question:  there is an “L” on the right hand side of the charging bridge. Does that indicate a Long Branch origin?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2020 at 9:14pm
A quick response to the L question.  No.
Your rifle,being that it is now a No4Mk1/2 and that it has the bolt release behind the charging bridge would be indicative of a rifle that was originally produced from eirher Maltby, Fazackerly, or BSA. That according to Ian Skennerton. Unless that reciever was thoroughly scrubbed of all original stamps or marks, there would be no way of definitively  determining who actually made the rifle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2020 at 1:04am
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

Your rifle,being that it is now a No4Mk1/2 and that it has the bolt release behind the charging bridge would be indicative of a rifle that was originally produced from eirher Maltby, Fazackerly, or BSA. That according to Ian Skennerton. 

That is generally correct, but remember that both Long Branch & Savage both produced about 100,000 (each) of the No4 Mk1 before they requested a derogation to allow them to modify the design, simplify production and produce the No4 Mk1* 

A No4 Mk1 could be from Long Branch, Savage, Maltby, Fazakerley, BSA, or POF (Who bought the BSA machinery in 1955)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2020 at 7:44am
That is generally correct and accepted as well but in keeping with the topic at hand. The OP has a No4Mk1/2 and as indicated earlier:
Skennerton states that:
(((No4Mk1 rifles upgraded after FTR will be marked  No4Mk1/2)))
No4Mk1* rifles upgraded after FTR will be marked No4Mk1/3.

This just surmises that the OP's rifle with all intents and purposes, was originally manufactured at either Maltby, Fazackerly, or BSA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2020 at 10:32am
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

That is generally correct and accepted as well but in keeping with the topic at hand. The OP has a No4Mk1/2 and as indicated earlier:
Skennerton states that:
(((No4Mk1 rifles upgraded after FTR will be marked  No4Mk1/2)))
No4Mk1* rifles upgraded after FTR will be marked No4Mk1/3.

This just surmises that the OP's rifle with all intents and purposes, was originally manufactured at either Maltby, Fazackerly, or BSA.

Not trying to be argumentative but I'm afraid I must disagree.

It is certainly most likely to be one of the British manufacturers simply due to the number produced, but it is not correct to say that a No4 Mk1 (or No4 Mk1/2) can only be from one of the British manufacturers, and Skennerton is not saying that.

Of the almost quarter of a million Savage No4 Mk1, or a Long Branch No4 Mk1 it is not impossible, not even unlikely that some were modified to No4 Mk1/2

You are absolutely correct that a No4 Mk1/3 will NOT be from UK manufacturers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2020 at 11:03am
How about,for the sake of argument we try this. The first photo shows the flat side of my No4Mk1/2 Maltby.  Notice the angle just above the woodline.  The following two photos show a Long Branch and a Savage No4Mk1.  Look at the missing angle above the woodline.  Every No4Mk1/2 I have ever viually inspected has that angle,which is indicative of either a Maltby, Fazackerly, or BSA made rifle and every No4Mk1/3 I have ever visually inspected has the smoothed radius as opposed to the angle which is indicative of either a Long Branch or Savage made  rifle. 36IDRedleg. Can you confirm what your reciever looks like in regards to my supplied photo please? It should be noted here that the LB is a No4Mk1 no star 01L2397 and the Savage is a No4Mk1* 73C2642.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2020 at 12:03pm
Interesting point regarding the side of the receiver maching. I was not aware of that.
However I believe that one of our members here does have an early Longbranch No4Mk1 (or possibly Savage) that was converted to Mk1/2. So they are out there; but obviously rarer than a British variant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2020 at 2:52pm
Yup, Exactly!
This is why the ND/NT CadTeknik (sp?), German mount from Brownells never fitted my '43 Savage, & why you have to tell the people at BadAce which exact receiver you have.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2020 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

How about,for the sake of argument we try this. The first photo shows the flat side of my No4Mk1/2 Maltby.  Notice the angle just above the woodline.  The following two photos show a Long Branch and a Savage No4Mk1.  Look at the missing angle above the woodline.  Every No4Mk1/2 I have ever viually inspected has that angle,which is indicative of either a Maltby, Fazackerly, or BSA made rifle and every No4Mk1/3 I have ever visually inspected has the smoothed radius as opposed to the angle which is indicative of either a Long Branch or Savage made  rifle. 36IDRedleg. Can you confirm what your reciever looks like in regards to my supplied photo please? It should be noted here that the LB is a No4Mk1 no star 01L2397 and the Savage is a No4Mk1* 73C2642.


have to agree as both i and britrifles have/had a longbranch mkI theat was upgraded to mkI/2 - he already posted it to this thread on the first page , granted thyere were not many that made it but obviously a few did as this one most definetly did , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2020 at 5:47pm
The original poster has not confirmed if in fact his rifle is a LB or a Savage made No4 that was upgraded.  If he can verify which reciever he has by looking at my supplied photos, we can narrow down what he actually has.
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