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Fake or Real??

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AussieShooter View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 08 2021 at 1:27pm
I have a Lithgow 1907 bayonet manufactured in 1914, EXCEPT it is a straight quillion, not a hooked quillion.  Skennerton mentioned the hooked quillion was phased out in 1915.  So how can this be??

I own it, so let's hope I have the rarest of unicorns, not a rookie purchase mistake!  It's interesting, I have had this for a while in storage, and something has been niggling me about it so I finally checked today.  Duh! The scabbard is also problematic.   I knew it wasn't a match, but it has a tear drop lock stud on a 1944 sheath and a OA marked nosecap.  It looks as though a WWI locket was stapled to a WWII sheath? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BJ72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2021 at 3:32pm
I'm no expert on the bayonets but I believe the quillion was removed (ground off) from bayonets still in service once the change was accepted. That would account for your early bayonet with no quillion. Looking at your first photo, it almost appears as though it's been ground or modified where the quillion would have been. It also explains why hooked quillion bayonets are so hard to find and so ridiculously expensive. The scabbards were also rebuilt and repaired in service which could account for the mixed parts on yours. That's still a very nice early Lithgow bayonet you have there Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2021 at 6:47pm
that would be correct - most all "in service" were cut , they look just like the later non-quillon items , those that survived would be the rare ones , so what you have is a really nice example of a bayonet that served past the quillon era , sorry not a more valuable than standard at this point but still a fine example in great shape for its age , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2021 at 9:51am
From what I remember there's actually a subtle difference in the shape of the remaining part of the quillion between the "Hookies" that were docked & the later ones made without one.
The later ones were strait sided albeit with a taper, but the originals inwardly were curved IIRC.
https://www.bygoneblades.com/images/products/british-p1907-first-pattern-hooked-quillon-bayonet-enfield-1912_8.jpg

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2021 at 5:54pm
one thing is clear - this is not a fake , its a real bayonet of that date , not a hookie anymore but a fine example 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bubba ho tep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2021 at 9:03pm
I had a 1911 dated enfield hookie...was a decent piece. I almost kept it but it had seen Australian service and was marked so , and traded it off. Got a gorgeous sanderson hookie to take it's place. Been trying to find am English only issue hookie dated 1911 for my 1911 SMLE , or one marked to the K.R.R.   My sanderson I think was marked to the scots guards then over stamped to the Irish guards on the pommel. I always joked it was pilfered by an Irishman from the scots to my Irish relatives.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2021 at 3:52pm
As usual thanks for the great input. Potential disappointment has turned it into an even more interesting bayonet.  I had no idea they de-hooked the quillion! In a way it makes sense as I imagine the hook just got in the way.  The photo's do show some slight marks which look like vice marks which may have been from the removal/grinding process. I do have a really nice 1942 and I will compare the shapes of the quillion to see if I can detect the difference - I'll post photo's if I can detect the difference.

Very cool.  Thanks gents. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2021 at 8:51pm
mine is marked 1910 and was a mole mfgr , served with the royal irish rifles , also the royal dublin fusiliers in its life , the cancellations are a line out without loosing the markings , some of these did a lot of duty not that any of this relates to yours 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2021 at 6:26am
it’s all interesting Asquare. :)

These firearms tell a fascinating story. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2021 at 10:39am
I've heard, but can't confirm, that they were removed because the tangled in barbed wire way too much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2021 at 7:55pm
"...it’s all interesting Asquare. :)

These firearms tell a fascinating story. ..."


yes indeed and if they could only talk , i very much enjoyed researching mine over the years , its sad so much is lost to the ages but what we can find is always fun 
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