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britrifles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2021 at 7:47am
The “Service Rifle” designation in the Hodgedon reloading data refers to US gas operated 7.62 NATO chambered rifles.  For these rifles, consideration must be given to gas port pressure as well as chamber pressure.  Gas port pressure and volume is a function of the powder burn rate and bullet velocity.  Other reloading manuals published in the US have similar load table, Hornady for example.  Sierra has a detailed section in their manual for reloading for “gas guns”.  Nothing wrong with using this data for your Envoy. 

The 7.62 military brass is heavier, meaning a thicker case body, particularly in the web area forward of the case head.  This brass is able to withstand the increased strain (stretch) in chambers dimensioned to 7.62 NATO standards.  

Most reloading manuals will recommend you drop the charges by 1 to 2 grains when reloading .308 Winchester with 7.62 military cases.  Sierra Reloading Manual:  “The thicker construction of these cases decreases capacity, making a reduction in charge weight a necessity.”  

Military 7.62 cases will likely give you a longer case life (more reloads) than the thinner .308 brass.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enfield Envoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2021 at 9:25am
Thanks Britrifle. 

A commercial brass, despite once in your rifle fired, therefore fire-formed, is not the better choice as military brass. 

Probably only one exception: Federals Gold Medal Match cases.. Well.. .

Thats a unequivocal point of view. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enfield Envoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2021 at 9:57am
Yes, Zed Hug

We are. Mostly in any case.. One or another sidepath is unavoidable - from time to time.

Please consider: one searches for several months info like this. To have a true decision base concerning for example a purchase like approximately this: Envoy No. 405, around 1400 Swiss Fr.

 
And this is the first time he gets this info in such a clear manner. In contrast to: to often he has the impression, being honest: many don't like to talk about this subject. And they disagree, again, again...

That is finally not really informative, I'm sorry. Better i stop describing this athmosphere now.. .  

Can you imagine this difference, I hope ? No I can decide much better together with my gunsmith, f.e.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2021 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by Enfield Envoy Enfield Envoy wrote:

Thanks Britrifle. 

A commercial brass, despite once in your rifle fired, therefore fire-formed, is not the better choice as military brass. 

Probably only one exception: Federals Gold Medal Match cases.. Well.. .

Thats a unequivocal point of view. 





Most of my reloading for my No. 4 has been with Canadian 7.62 Ball ammo cases.  I’ve weighed these, they are about 15 grains heavier than typical .308 commercial cases.   The Lapua .308 cases are a bit heavier than the others I have checked, about 10 grains lighter than the 7.62 cases.  Not sure about the Federal Match cases, they may be of heavier construction too.  

I believe one other factor that contributes to the short case life in the .303 and 7.62 Lee Enfield is the action design.  The locking lugs are at the rear of the bolt.  So, there will be some axial compression of the bolt and axial tension in the receiver under load, this adds to the headspace that does not occur in front locking bolts (or at least, not as much).  I have been meaning to calculate the displacements, just have not sat down to do the math.   

None of this matters in service, the case only had to last for one use.  It’s us reloaders who are trying to reuse the case over and over again either because we are cheap or because cases are not available.  

In my experience, case life in the Lee Enfields can be greatly extended if you neck size until you feel resistance in fully locking the bolt. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enfield Envoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2021 at 2:55pm
Were your Canadian Cases from IVI, perhaps ?..

BR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2021 at 3:47pm
I've reloaded many cases from many sources.
HXP, (Greek)
"nnu"/ PPU,(Serbian)
OFV (Indian)
PFI (Pakistani)
Win
Rem
& several others.
They can all be made to work, to a greater, or lesser degree.
They all also tend, regardless of origin to have some traits in common.
Neck sizing, as described, or IMO "Partial Full Length Resizing" together with mild, not Elmer Keith commemorative , "balls to the wall" reload densities seem to be the biggest enhancement possible.
Uberloadflash & goboomer loads seem to have the opposite effect.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enfield Envoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2021 at 5:00pm
Good morning, Shamu Smile

Oh... Quite a lot of case names we see in your posting.
All for 7,62 Nato resp. .308 Win.-Ammo..?.. 
Well,  I can imagine that you receive some more brands than we do here... And you have to grab the cases which are affordable.. The brand will change, of course...

That's also an special chaptre, the choice of cases... True..

 Unfortunately there is no private Reloader in my environment which reloads 7,62 mm-Nato or .308 Win., at least as far as I know. They reload hunting and Long Range-Stuff etc. in many other calibers... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2021 at 2:40am
Enfield Envoy, may I make a suggestion!
It seems to me; from reading all your posts on this subject both here and on milsurp's; that you have not really understood what many of the professional gunsmiths and Enfield experts have told you.
Because you keep asking the same question. 
So I believe the only way that you can be properly satisfied; is to purchase a good quality chronometer and do your own tests with your own rifle.
I suggest this; because your rifle will have different wear when compared to other's. 
Understanding what velocity your reloads or factory ammo has in your rifle can only be found by testing your rifle!
But as mentioned previously by all the experts. Do not overload a 7.62 Enfield!
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enfield Envoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2021 at 8:56am
he!!o Shamu,

I found here several good informations. As described.. More than in most other"sources", simply said...Big smile
Especially in the threads: British System of Chamber Pressure Measurement, Federal .308 Ammunition and Best surplus ammo for Nato 7,62x51 Enfield Pt 2, High pressure warnings, No.4 Mk 2, 7,62 mm.

Often it was not only close to the matter, it was also truly exciting to read.. And emotional. Fine work !

Therefore I would say"Thanks"by giving a donation to our forum. Some Money, yes. But I'm not long yet a member - how does that work here Smile  ? 

Thanks, Shamu.

Have a nice evening.

BR Enfield Envoy


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2021 at 9:40am
Thank you, but there is no need to do that the site is run as a hobby by the owner/administrator.
The only time we had a money-raising effort was several years ago now. But the offer is much appreciated.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enfield Envoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2021 at 4:45pm
Stephen Redgwells Title Reloading 7,62x51mm Military Brass: Target Loads contains  results with IVI- Cases. I don't know the Canadian Ammo Companies at allSmile, I realized afterwards.. 
It's a big country and it has a close relation to Enfields. 
My Gunsmith  knows some shooting or gunsmithing Canadians and a firing pin for one of my pistols has been ordered, already.. Tongue
Therefore I wonder which of their brands of 7,62-cases do you know resp. try out ?.. .

Good night. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enfield Envoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2021 at 4:47pm
A question to Britrifles is this... 
BR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2021 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by Enfield Envoy Enfield Envoy wrote:

A question to Britrifles is this... 
BR
Does your question refer to Bench Rest shooting?
While we here appreciate your enthusiasm for the 7.62/308 and your questions,  I must remind you that this is a site for Enfield enthusiasts who both share information about Enfield rifles and own Enfield rifles and their accessories. While we do now have a subsection for 7.62mm reloading, our main focus is on the 7.62mm Enfield rifles including the 2A1, L39A1, L42A1,  Envoy,  and Enforcer. As well as any Enfield rifle that has been converted to 7.62x51mm/.308 Winchester.  The reloading section is mainly for sharing a safe and workable load for said Enfield rifles. If your reloading questions are for general information regarding 7.62/308 loadi ng data, I highly recommend and suggest that you visit the numerous reloading databases on the internet.
If you have an Enfield rifle of any form or even an Enfield revolver, we would love for you to share with us this Enfield rifle or revolver and we in turn could offer any knowledge we might have of said Enfield rifle or revolver. As far as continuing the 7.62mm topic with you. I myself believe that we have offered you every viable answer to your questions and requests and cannot proceed any further. You have made it known that you do not reload or even own the Envoy you have supplied us a photo of and as such, our supplied reloading information can only be assumed as being passed on to your gunsmith/reloaded ammunition supplier and with that said I will also request that he research and find his own information concerning 7.62mm/.308. Thank you for your questions and you are very welcome to our answers...
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