Norma powder!

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   Gent's, my local gun shop is now stocking Norma gun powder.So how good is it for the .303 British? 
I generally use the SMK174 gr HPBT's for my rifles. I have to load for No4Mk1 and No1MkIII*.
Shooting at 200 metres (about 220 yards)

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Zed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6460	Post Options Post Reply Quote Zed Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Norma powder! Posted: February 06 2020 at 12:17pm
	Gent's, my local gun shop is now stocking Norma gun powder. So how good is it for the .303 British? I generally use the SMK174 gr HPBT's for my rifles. I have to load for No4Mk1 and No1MkIII*. Shooting at 200 metres (about 220 yards)
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Goosic Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8842	Post Options Post Reply Quote Goosic Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: February 06 2020 at 12:22pm
	It is all I use Zed. Norma 202. It was specifically developed for the 308 but is just at home in a 303. The Norma reloading manual will also recommend using WLRM primers. Anything between 38- 40 grains is plenty for the174grn BTHP.

Pukka Bundook Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: February 02 2015 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1369	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pukka Bundook Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: February 06 2020 at 1:43pm
	I reckon Norma #202 the best for the .303. Also, If you want pretty fast loads (hunting) you can do it with this powder without excess pressure. (180 gr and such)

Goosic Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8842	Post Options Post Reply Quote Goosic Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: February 06 2020 at 1:55pm
	I have to attend a hockey game tonight but as soon as I get home I'll get some pictures up of the Norma manual for the 303 loads, 150, 174/180. All my target loads for my Enfields are 40.0grns of 202,WLRM primers, and topped with Hornady 174grn BTHP GRAF bullets.

britrifles Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404	Post Options Post Reply Quote britrifles Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: February 06 2020 at 3:55pm
	That's another powder on my list to try. After I run the H4350 load tests this weekend.

303 Hunter Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: December 14 2019 Location: Alberta, Canada Status: Offline Points: 316	Post Options Post Reply Quote 303 Hunter Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: February 06 2020 at 7:56pm
	One of my reloading manuals list Norma 203B for 215 grain bullets.
	The Lee Enfield is to the Canadian north what the Winchester repeater was to the American west. Cal Bablitz

Goosic Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8842	Post Options Post Reply Quote Goosic Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: February 06 2020 at 10:11pm
	Yes it does. However,you can use the minimum charge of 38.0 grns of 202 and still achieve the minimum fps with a reduced pressure as well along with a slower burn rate.

Zed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6460	Post Options Post Reply Quote Zed Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: February 07 2020 at 4:19am
	Ok thanks for the info.I'll get a pot to try out; if it's good for .308 as well then I'll also try it in the L39. I've currently got a pot of N140 to test (Vitavhouri). This was recommended by my friend who has had great results with it in his No4 rifle. But it's hard to get locally. If the Norma is good enough for Goosic; then it's sure good enough for me! Plus it's available; which makes life easier. I have been using various Vectan (Nobel Sport) powders. Results were reasonable, but not great. I should be at the range tomorrow to test the No1 rifle with the N140. Haven't shot this since refitting the wood and the PH5A sight. So probably too many variables. I'll take along some PPU factory loads as a comparison.
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Goosic Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8842	Post Options Post Reply Quote Goosic Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: February 07 2020 at 6:45am
	The nice thing for me is that my minimum charge weight for the .308 168grn SMK/TMK is 40.0gr. The charge weights for a .311/.312 174grn projectile is from low to high, 39-41 grains. Set my powder charger to 40.0grns for both and go. For 303 Hunter: Your astute comment about Norma 203-B powder being used for the 215 Woodleigh RN is definitively correct. However,and that being said. The Lee Loader for the .303 British cartridge, has a powder measuring dipper #167 that regardless of your choice of smokeless powder,will always give you a very basic and minimum charge weight. I ran a comparison test between a batch of IMR3031, IMR4064,and NORMA 202 powders using just the dipper and the average taken from all three came to 35.8grns for the IMR3031, 36.7grns for the IMR4064,and exactly 38.0grns for the Norma 202. All three of these powders will work exceptionally well with a bullet weight of 180-215 charging each case with just the dipper with no hitch in your giddy up. On a more personal note, I have loaded all my 215grn bullets with the Norma 202 powder using the Lee Loader #167 dipper for well over two decades now and have never experienced an over pressure situation, blown out primers,sheared off a bolt lug,or any other bad ju-ju you can come up with.

303 Hunter Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: December 14 2019 Location: Alberta, Canada Status: Offline Points: 316	Post Options Post Reply Quote 303 Hunter Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: February 08 2020 at 9:18pm
	When I made the comment it was off the top of my head. When went back to the manual later that night the info I found pretty much what you were saying. Norma 202 for 150-174 grain bullets and 203B for 174-215 grain bullets. It's nice to know that you can use 202 for 215 grain bullets although I have not been able to find ether in Canada so far. I am sorry if some of my comments have been annoying.
	The Lee Enfield is to the Canadian north what the Winchester repeater was to the American west. Cal Bablitz

britrifles Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404	Post Options Post Reply Quote britrifles Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: February 09 2020 at 4:29am
	Just ordered a jug of 202 to try and magnum LR primers. I’m going to duplicate Goosics load and try it out in my Long Branch. The usual place I order my powder from did not list it. Midway USA had free shipping and had the powder, so ordered it from them. Looks like Midway reduced their hazmat fee too.

Zed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6460	Post Options Post Reply Quote Zed Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: February 09 2020 at 7:05am
	I enjoyed my time at the range on Saturday morning; definitely the best part of the weekend with some sunshine and little wind. (There's a storm blowing in tonight and it started raining on the way home). So I was testing a few things at the same time; and I'm quite happy with the results. Having fitted the PH5A sight and also re-adjusted the fore end fit; the first thing was to make sure it hit the target. So first 5 shot's I used PPU factory load 174 grain, as this is a good base line. All 5 were on the paper at 200 metres, although slightly left of centre and high and not a great group. So added 2 clicks of windage and dropped 2 in elevation. Then switched to the N140 loads, starting at the lower end with 38.6 grains, Fed primer and 174 SMK. 4 of the shots were in a rectangle 2.5" by 1.5" with the 5th lower by 2". The best 4 shared between the 9 and 8 ring a 6 o'clock. The 39 grain load put 2 adjacent to the previous group of 4 then I seemed to throw the remaining 3 to the right. With the 39.4 grain load I got more dispersion vertically. So I will know make a second test concentrating on weights between 38.6 and 39 grains; with more rounds available for a better sample. The 38.6 load is very easy on the shoulder too. I will hopefully get some Norma powder this week to continue testing. Need to test a load for the No4' rifles as well. My friend was shooting his 1903 A3 Springfield; he's got this rifle well sorted and is a very good shot. Very impressive last 4 shots were within 1.25" square and bang in the middle of the 10. We both shoot from prone with sling, (no sandbags or bipods)
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britrifles Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404	Post Options Post Reply Quote britrifles Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: February 09 2020 at 8:50am
	Zed, excellent results. Your 38.6 gr load produced a 1.2 MOA group for the first 4 shots. I’d load up 40 rounds of that, shoot four 10 shot groups. If you call a flier, discount that shot. Then take the average group size. This is my absolute minimum round count for testing loads. I also look for clustering if shots, a 2 MOA group that has 8 or 9 shots at 1 MOA has a better score potential that a 2 MOA group that puts all the rounds on the outer edge of the group. I’ve had loads that put rounds all around the X ring, but not one shot into it, very frustrating. It’s surprising how often we can shoot spectacular 5 shot groups and think this is the best load ever, only to find out this was an anomaly. Here’s a buildup of a 10 shot group with my Varget match load at 100 yards from my Dad’s No. 4 (T) off the bench. The grid lines are 1 inch square. 3 shots: 5 shots: And 10 shots: If I stopped at three shots and declared the rifle can shoot .3 MOA, I would be be grossly overestimating the accuracy of the rifle and load (and the ability of the shooter).

Zed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6460	Post Options Post Reply Quote Zed Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: February 09 2020 at 9:19am
	That's good advice. With 4 x 10 rounds groups I'll be able to check the sight zero as well. I may check out a load of 38.8grains as well. But to be honest, this rifle definitely prefers lower loads than the No4Mk1/2. If I can confirm the load is regular; I will do a test as per a competition, with timing, to see how the load reacts to the rifle heating up.
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