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shiloh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shiloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Digital scales
    Posted: June 25 2023 at 8:43am
Never really trusted them because they are, well digital. No real way to prove them, sure they come with a calibration weight but that dosn`t prove squat. They`re electronic!
Any way back at Christmas I bought a Hornady digital figured why not, help speed up my one-at-a-time loading procedure.
So today I needed to finish up some 303 and 3030, guess what, 4hrs worth now needs to be all undone and redone using the tried and true beam balance scale.
Towards the end of the session, the powder level just didn`t look right so I measured it on the balance scale. Short by 13+/- grns..ffs.
Not pleasedAngry I threw the f`ing Hornady scale against the wall; pos digital tech.
Ya ya I put fresh batteries in, went through the calibration procedure and all was good, even did it after wards to see, and ya still good, And yes it was set to grains not grams,oz`s or ct.

Makes me wonder how many use these and wonder why there loads shoot so crappy.

Never again, stick with what works, new and improved usually isn`t. Well in my case anyway, Should it be sent back, probably, but it aint going to happen, waist of time money and energy. Every thing that come from Chinkland is garbage!!!!
Rant over

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2023 at 8:58am
Balance beam scales are the best, there's no doubt.
Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddyofurniture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2023 at 9:28am
My Father in law used a balance beam scale and a set of yellow powder scoop for all his reloading.
Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2023 at 10:13am
Same reason I swapped out my 1990 Chevy truck's TBI to a 4 bbl carb. Mechanical may not be better, but it is more consistently accurate, in my humble opinion.
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shiloh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shiloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2023 at 11:25am
Amen to all:

(The basic meaning of the Semitic root from which it is derived is “firm,” “fixed,” or “sure,” and the related Hebrew verb also means “to be reliable” and “to be trusted.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddyofurniture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2023 at 11:32am
Shalom to you all.
Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2023 at 11:32am
They can be influenced by things like electrical noise from things like florescent lights.
I still have my PACT model 1 from the stone age.
It works fine, but I am very alert to electrical "noise" & have intermittently checked it with a full set of check weights, not just the 2 supplied.
Back in my lab days I learned working a Mass Spectrometer & an Atomic Absorption Analysis unit that the more calibration points you set up the more stable & accurate the instrument was because the calibration curves were smoother.
Maybe that's why the PACT works so well it uses a 5-point calibration system?


Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2023 at 5:34pm
I often wonder if we are all being fooled with the accuracy (or lack thereof) of a digital scale.  I have an RCBS Range Master 750.  The first one I got quit working after a month or so.  They sent me another one, and it’s been working since then.  Not sure how long that has been, must be more than 10 years now. 

 I rarely weigh each charge, but I always check the weight thrown from my powder measure with the scale, and check perhaps every tenth charge.  The settings on the measure never seems to change, other than when I start on a new jug of powder.  Then, the measure settings change by a few tenths of a grain from the previous jug/lot of powder. 

There are scales that now read in one hundredth of a grain.  I find it hard to believe a scale could be that accurate.  But, I have confidence that the my RCBS scale is within +/- 1/10 of a grain.  It has to be calibrated with the weights provided every time you use it. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2023 at 6:23pm
/\/\/\
this.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2023 at 6:37pm
i have both - ive always used my balance beam to confirm my calibrations and had no issue , but in general what im loading is not as recise as what some of you do so i set up with hand dippers for the majority of what i do - and yes i do all mine one at at time each process ..with care .. i like my loads for what i do , but im not making sniper rounds either , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shiloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2023 at 4:20am
Well got the last of my loaded rounds unloaded this morning, measured a few powder charges and they were short by 8.3 grains not 13 as earlier noted but still....

Yes i`m a 1 at a time loader and I do measure each charge, that`s just the way I`ve always done it, it leaves nothing to chance. Even if I use the dippers(small runs) instead of my powder thrower, I still weigh em.

That`s the reason I bought the little digital, figured it would speed things up a bit. Yes i calibrate upon every use, and yesterday it passed. Then when I noticed the powder level in the cases seemed low-ish, I weighed to confirm then re-calibrated and the scale failed and failed and failed, off by 3+ grms. even changed the batteries, still failed.
No biggy I guess, just won`t consider using one again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2023 at 4:55am
That’s a large error.  Most decent powder measures will throw charges within +/- 0.2 grains, so you would be better off throwing that scale in the bin, set your measure using the old balance beam scale and then move on. 

The question “weigh or not to weigh” individual charges is one that will never go away or be resolved.  I think it just depends on how much reloading you do, and if you have confidence in your powder measure or not.  I’ve reloaded enough to gain confidence that it is not necessary for most powders for accurate shooting out to 600 yds.  Some long stick powders (like 3031) will not measure well, so these should be weighed individually.  

But, if you have a scale like the one you have, it could spell big trouble…


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2023 at 9:01am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

...and if you have confidence in your powder measure…
(Weighing each powder charge is a priority to safe reloading practices.) 

 For those select few that simply reload to get as much copper and lead down range without bothering to check that each and every charge is weighed properly well, have fun with that.

 At some point in time, that mechanical device will fail you either by giving you a smaller than required powder charge or a powder charge exceeding the maximum allowed through published data.

 It is always better to be safe than sorry in my honest opinion...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2023 at 10:42am
Even with the semi-progressive Dillon RL 550 I check weigh frequently. I actually have a fired, with the popped primer still in, case for each caliber, that I dump into to do this. as without that the powder meter fail/safe is a huge pain to cheat.
Also when I set up a "new" charge or batch I not only check weigh 10~12 rounds, but do some double & triple,if the case will take it, loads to get some average readings.
Even with powders like IMR3031 which has the supposedly difficult to meter long sticks are withing ±1/10 Gr.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2023 at 12:44pm
I’ve gone back and fourth with weighing each charge, for the 600 yd line.  More because it’s one less thing to get in your head than any concern for a safety issue.  The powder measures like the type I use with a micrometer adjustment marked in 1/10th grain increments are very simple volumetric devices, much simpler than an electronic scale that is more likely to be wrong than a powder measure (the subject of this thread).  

I do weigh every charge for long range (800 and 1000 yds), again, to minimize vertical dispersion, although it’s debatable if this makes any significant difference in my No. 4 7.62 shot prone with aperture sight. 

When I set up to load a batch of cases, I’ll weigh the first 5, just to be sure there is no change in the measure settings, or I didn’t dial in the wrong setting.  Then, as Shamu does, weigh every 10th drop, to make sure nothing has changed. It never does, but just another safety step in the process.

One of the tricks I learned early on is to tap the handle up against the stop, to be sure all the powder drops from the measure, before rotating it back to refill the drum.  Also, periodically removing the rotating drum to clean it and the measure body to ensure smooth operation (which also promotes more consistent charge weights).  I do this about every 500 - 1000 loads.

The final step I take is to visually check the powder level in each case.  The loading block holds 50 cases and it’s obvious if you missed a charge, or there is some other fairly gross error that could be a safety issue. 








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2023 at 11:25am
My old Lyman #55 has a powder knocker built in & a part of the cycle is raise the arm flip the knocker, lower the arm, flip it again.
On the Dillon the Fail/Safe mechanism jars the powder meter as it cycles so its done automatically. The older meters without it don't do that though so it relies on the powder bar snapping back to do a similar job.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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