Best surplus ammo for nato 7.62x51 Enfield Pt 2 |
Post Reply | Page <1234> |
Author | |
Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
Posted: April 09 2020 at 11:35am |
Can you supply us with a side by side comparison with 303B proofing methods please?
|
|
Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
Posted: April 09 2020 at 4:04pm |
NATO EPVATEditNATO defines 5.56mm, 7.62mm, 9mm and 12.7mm using the NATO EPVAT test methods, which includes pressure testing. Unlike the civilian testing methods NATO EPVAT testing procedures for the "NATO rifle chamberings" require the pressure sensor or transducer to be mounted ahead of the case mouth. The advantage of this mounting position is that there is no need to drill the cartridge case to mount the transducer. Drilling prior to firing is always a time-consuming process (fast quality control and feedback to production is essential during the ammunition manufacturing process). The disadvantage of this mount is that the pressure rises much faster than in a drilled cartridge case. This causes high frequency oscillations of the pressure sensor (approx 200 kHz for a Kistler 6215 transducer) and this requires electronic filtering with the drawback that filtering also affects the lower harmonics where a peak is found causing a slight error in the measurement. This slight error is not always well mastered and this causes a lot of discussion about the filter order, cutoff frequency and its type (Bessel or Butterworth).[9] For the 9mm NATO EPVAT specifies that for 9×19mm Parabellum (9mm Luger in C.I.P. nomenclature and 9mm NATO in NATO nomenclature), the transducer must be positioned at the mid case position (9.5 millimetres (0.37 in)) from the breech face instead of C.I.P.'s 12.5 millimetres (0.49 in) from the breech face. For NATO EPVAT testing of military firearms ammunition NATO design EPVAT test barrels with Kistler 6215 channel sensor transducers are used |
|
britinbc
Newbie Joined: August 08 2020 Location: bc canada Status: Offline Points: 5 |
Posted: August 11 2020 at 3:19pm |
Hi All
interesting thread i was about to ask if it was ok to use 308, as 7.62x51 is getting harder to find but i dont need to now cheers J |
|
Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
Posted: August 11 2020 at 3:59pm |
Federal Ammunition makes a factory 175grn .308 round that can definitely be used in a rifle chambered for the 7.62x51mm NATO.
|
|
Enfield Envoy
Groupie Joined: December 19 2020 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 35 |
Posted: January 07 2021 at 6:56am |
Das ist ein sehr interessantes Thema...
Hier in der Schweiz gibts eine andere, Auswahl Auswahl eine 7,62 mm Nato-Munition ... Fast alle 144-147 gr-Sorten kommen mit der Bezeichnung .308 Win., überdies... Was waren die Erfahrungen mit den .308 Win.-Laborierungen Federal American Eagle 150 gr FMJ-BT und PMC 147 gr Bronze FMJ-BT und der Lapua B466 150 gr Lock-Base in einer No. 4-Enfield-Conversion ? Am besten mit Streukreisen, Mündungsgeschwindigkeiten.. . Danke Beste Grüsse aus einer verschneiten Schweiz
|
|
Enfield Envoy
|
|
Enfield Envoy
Groupie Joined: December 19 2020 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 35 |
Posted: January 07 2021 at 7:11am |
Baa... German not English in the posting before. I beg your pardon.
This is a really interesting topic. Because here in Switzerland we get quite another, smaller choice of 7,62 mm-Nato-Ammo only.. Most of the 144-150 gr loads come as .308 Win.-stuff, on top of that.. What was your experience with the .308 Win.-Loads Federal American Eagle 150 gr FMJ-BT, PMC Bronze 147 gr FMJ-BT and Lapua B466 150 gr Lock Base FMJ ? Ideally with group size and muzzle velocities.. . Many Thanks Best regards from a snowy Switzerland |
|
Enfield Envoy
|
|
Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
Posted: January 07 2021 at 2:13pm |
I have only used the Commercially loaded 175grn Federal Ammunition and recently acquired the Military M852 Match ammunition for testing purposes only. I handload using both the Hornady BTHP and Sierra Matchking BTHP 168grn .308 bullet. I use Norma 202 and IMR4064 starting with 40.0, never exceeding 42.0 for both as well. Published data gives a PSI on the Piezo Scale of just under 40,000 using the suggested starting charge weight of both powders.
|
|
Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
Posted: January 07 2021 at 3:11pm |
OK, now I think I understand. 7.62mm NATO is a "Military round" .308 Win is a "Civilian round" We have a similar, but not quite as dense, ruling here. The FN-FAL was imported here in .308 Winchester (match) from Belgium, why? Because it was a civilian target (in the US Pistol! ) round. Its politics not ballistics. So lets think for a moment. 1: Is it a 150gr (9.52544Gm) bullet? 2: Is the muzzle velocity lower than 2650FPS (M/S 807.72) The quoted velocities tend to say NO! (850M/S) If it is you're possibly safe. It's going to depend on things like the burning rate (@ 850M/S) of the powder used ( which we don't know) ????? BUT! There may still be differences that are unsafe, like Peak pressure, Pressure curve & so on. |
|
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
|
|
britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
Posted: January 07 2021 at 7:29pm |
I’ve come to look at this question in a broader sense than just the ultimate strength of the action for a one time application of the maximum pressure. I consider the cumulative effects of shooting thousands of rounds of this ammo. For that reason, I have chosen to load my own as Goosic does to the low end of the .308 Winchester published data keeping pressures and velocities to less than that of .303 British Mk 7 ammunition (for similar weight bullets, 168 and 175 grains).
All you can be certain of is that this American Eagle and Lapua 150 gr commercial ammo is within the 62,000 psi piezo pressure maximum when fired in a SAAMI spec chamber. We don’t know what the pressure is for that ammo fired in your particular rifle. For me, I would much rather reload my own, to the low end of the .308 Winchester published data, and chronograph my loads to give me confidence that the chamber pressures are low, and less than .303 British Mk 7 ammunition. I do this to minimize long term wear on the rifle, not out of concern that I will blow up the rifle from an overload. I want to minimize barrel throat erosion and wear on the action. These rifles are not being made anymore and good ones are getting harder to find. |
|
Enfield Envoy
Groupie Joined: December 19 2020 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 35 |
Posted: January 11 2021 at 9:09am |
Good evening, thanks for all the answers
Goosic: this Federal 175 grain is this the Gold Medal-Match, i suppose ? Only to be sure to understand it really correctly, you had no problems with it in a No.4-Enfield ? That would be great... ! BR
|
|
Enfield Envoy
|
|
Enfield Envoy
Groupie Joined: December 19 2020 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 35 |
Posted: January 12 2021 at 6:12am |
Better said, it is rather this type of box, these days... Now the pic has been found here - if you had a trouble-free use in a Enfield No.4-Conversion, that would really help solve problems.. . Basically I can imagine that, because Federal ammo was in any caliber never loaded hot, according to my 30 Years experience. And having a look at reloading Infos, f.e. Hogdon, it seems to be possible.. .
If 1 or 2 commercial loads works well and are also payable, reloading would be unnecessary so everything would be by far simpler.. . I don't reload until but was and I'm still interested in it. Federal 175 gr Match, Military M852 Match: You have really good access to ammo.. Enviable If here in Switzerland a Federal Ammo product appears, its usually quickly sold out.. You have to run. |
|
Enfield Envoy
|
|
The Armourer
Senior Member Joined: June 23 2019 Location: Y Felinhelli Status: Offline Points: 1246 |
Posted: January 13 2021 at 3:36am |
deleted
|
|
Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
Posted: January 13 2021 at 3:51am |
I myself have not had an issue with the 175grn Sierra Matchking as loaded by Federal Ammunition. |
|
Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
Posted: January 13 2021 at 3:54am |
Why??
|
|
Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
Posted: January 13 2021 at 3:54am |
Why?
|
|
Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
Posted: January 13 2021 at 3:55am |
Why???
|
|
Post Reply | Page <1234> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |