Looking for info on No1 MKIII |
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AussieShooter
Senior Member Joined: April 14 2019 Location: Chicago, IL Status: Offline Points: 343 |
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Hope I can join this conversation with a similar question on a different rifle - No.1 Mk III* 1941 Lithgow manufactured Enfield. I uploaded a couple of photos. Firstly, can you help decipher these stamps. I have been able to interpret a few of the prominent stamps, but not the entire "story". The second photo is of the underside of the Nose Cap. I can't decipher this stamp either. The nose cap serial # matches the receiver serial # and it appears to be a correct 1941#. Thanks so much for your expertise. |
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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If i am seeing correctly the first is a proof and noted for mkVII ammunition , the second is an inspection mark and ordinance arrow of acceptance - excuse if my terms are slightly off ive not really gotten engrossed in these minutia markings
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smerdon42
Senior Member Joined: February 20 2018 Location: Natick MA Status: Offline Points: 455 |
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armoires I have a lithgow with all its markings on the receiver that was redone and reserialized to the original Lithgow serial number it is in the 3000s from memory so it has no date on the wrist under the shield I am assuming a 1914 based on 2 others I have one with a slightly higher serial number in the British army and the last one ended up in the Austrian police force
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The Armourer
Senior Member Joined: June 23 2019 Location: Y Felinhelli Status: Offline Points: 1246 |
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I'm really tempted to say that that is Broad arrow acceptance mark, (over) Crown (over) 24 (over the styalised BSA mark) B I think it could be a BSA part approved by inspector number 24. I could be wrong - is there any sign of reworking ? is EVERYTHING Lithgow ? Speculation : 'At the front' in WW2, nose piece damaged and replaced by a Field Armourer with the next nose piece out of the parts drawer.
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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probably , but then who knows what might have been changed over the years - do the numbers match ? that will tell more of the story ,
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The Armourer
Senior Member Joined: June 23 2019 Location: Y Felinhelli Status: Offline Points: 1246 |
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He does say the 'numbers match' but that would be expected if it was fitted 'oficially' by an Armourer. The nose piece was one of the 5 rifle parts* (that were mandated by the 'Instructions to Armourers') that must be numbered to the body, so, during maintenance all critical parts could be kept together. * Nose piece, Forend, Rear sight, Barrel & Bolt Section 3.—Examination
Rifles No. 1 and No. 2, Mk. IV* The following instructions are for general guidance; the sequence may be varied to meet special
circumstances, e.g., when a particular defect due to unfair wears or other cause is prevalent, or when a
brief examination only is called for. Reference should be made to Section 4 for Modifications,
Repairs and Adjustments and to Chapter III, Part I, for special markings. 1. General.—Examine the rifle to see that the number, and the series letter where marked, on the
nose-cap, fore-end, sight leaf, barrel and bolt agree with the number on the body, and that the rifle is
complete. Record deficiencies, if any and damage due to unfair wear for report. 17. Each rifle must invariably be used with the breech bolt bearing the rifle number, otherwise the
lugs may not bear evenly, and the rifle may fire to the right or left; the distance from the bolt to the
end of the chamber may also be affected. When, owing to loss or damage, it becomes necessary to fit
another bolt to a rifle, the rifle should be fired for accuracy on the range. The fore-end and nose-cap
are also fitted and numbered to the rifle. Accuracy tests must always be carried out when either or both
of these components are exchanged.
18. When spare bolts, sight leaves, fore-ends and nose-caps are fitted to rifles, they will be marked
with the body number. When fitting a spare barrel with body, the whole of the components before
mentioned will be re-marked with the new body number.
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Bear43
Special Member Donating Member Joined: August 11 2010 Location: Doland, SD Status: Offline Points: 3059 |
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That marking is a BSA inspection mark. So it's just a typical nosecap was replaced at some point by a unit armourer situation. You can get some interesting part combinations from repairs sometimes. Neatest one I ever owned was an all matching 1916 Mk III* that had a Mk I nosecap. I would love to have that rifle back.
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AussieShooter
Senior Member Joined: April 14 2019 Location: Chicago, IL Status: Offline Points: 343 |
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Great responses and I am learning. I agreed with the BSA markings, and the MkVII ammo stamp makes sense now, especially if this was applied later in life. This is a gun I am thinking of bidding on - the seller is very cooperative and published lots of photos. Happy to share link if you promise not ot out bid me! It has some matching numbers. It has matching Proof Action Assembly (PAA) numbers on bolt handle and the area under the bolt handle. It has matching serial number on Nose Cap and barrel (breach end). I don't see any other numbers on the Forend, Rear sight, or Bolt. Bolt does have a OA stamp, which I believe is ORANGE, and consistent with assembly made at Orange, but still considered MA Lithgow. Seller reports no import marks. New information: The right side of the stock has some very faint markings that the current owner provided close up photo -MAO SMLE III* There is a prominent HV and 1945. There might also be a faint V next to the III* stamp. Not sure?? The serial number matches a 1941 lithgow number, and the receiver metal band is stamped 1941. the HV stamp could represent the MkVII ammo, but that should be stamped on the barrel, not the stock? The 1945 stamp concerns me. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks, Geoff
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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i was thinking that and along that line a mismatch might indicate an after service parts change ,
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Marco1010
Senior Member Joined: February 04 2020 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 400 |
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Possible it has been through FTR in 1945 hence the date on the butt, look for any FTR marks.
I have a 1943 Lithgow that has had a new barrel fitted in 1946 as part of the FTR process, typical MA (lithgow) marks but assembled at the Orange Armory sub-factory (OA marks) and some B marked components which would have come from the Bathurst factory. Typical wartime setup with each sub factory making components at different times then the parts all coming together for assembly. More knowledgable members on the forum have commented about earlier 1930's manufactured parts (pre war work to keep lithgow going) being used for wartime assembly. Bear is also right that the field armourers would use whatever was at hand as spares where necessary, unless it went through the FTR it might not get re stamped to match the rest of the rifle. have a look at the right side of the reciever under the edge of the wood just under where the bolt handle is for more markings. |
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AussieShooter
Senior Member Joined: April 14 2019 Location: Chicago, IL Status: Offline Points: 343 |
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I could not see additional markings on the wood under the bolt handle - hard to tell if anything was ever there. I was outbid, and kind of wish I wasn't so cautious (or cheap, depending on your perspective!). Thanks for all the feedback. I also made some good connections through this forum. Cheers.
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