Ammo score |
Post Reply |
Author | |
Sgtrick
Groupie Joined: April 28 2020 Location: Saskatoon Sask. Status: Offline Points: 29 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: October 30 2020 at 9:53am |
I just aquired a bunch of 1961 DA 762x51 military ball ammo. My question to the forum is whether I should put it through my long branch DCRA conversion . The conversion number is 54, so an early one. I posted the rifle on the forum back in june.
At present im shooting quite light powder coated bulllet loads through it and they look promising.
|
|
Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Military ball ammunition for a 7.62x51mm NATO chambered rifle, including your DCRA converted No4 will suffice providing the rifle is of sound working condition.
|
|
britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I still have about a thousand rounds of Dominion Arsenal (DA) ‘59 and ‘62 7.62 NATO ball ammunition. I can tell you that DCRA competitors fired hundreds of thousands of rounds of this ammunition thru DCRA converted No. 4 rifles in the ‘60s and ‘70s with no ill effects (not all in the same rifle of course!).
I shot a few hundred rounds of this ammo thru my DCRA conversion with no problems. It is excellent brass for reloading, heavier than .308 commercial brass, so reduce charge weight accordingly. |
|
britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I should have added, don’t expect great accuracy with this ammo. I posted an article a year or two back on accuracy results with this ammo thru my DCRA No. 4. I also ran tests by substituting the service bullet with a 150 gr SMK which gave no improvement. I then loaded the pulled service bullets with 40.0 gr Varget with very good results. The conclusion was that the powder charges in the DA ball ammo was not well controlled, weights varied by as much as 3 grains in a sample of 40 rounds. That accounted for the poor vertical dispersion which was a constant complaint with the DCRA converted rifles. It seems nobody questioned the ammo back then.
In one of the tests, I pulled the bullets from 40 rounds, dumped the powder into the measure, and recharged the cases with exactly 40.0 gr (trickle charged) of that same powder and reseated the bullet in the case. Accuracy was very good, on par with my match handloads. I did run the cases thru a collet die with the primer pin removed, otherwise neck tension was very light. |
|
Sgtrick
Groupie Joined: April 28 2020 Location: Saskatoon Sask. Status: Offline Points: 29 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I also have a lot of IVI ball ammo. Are the charges inconsitant in that as well. I remember in the military in the 80s it seemed to be quite accurate in our FN- FALs.
|
|
britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I don’t know about IVI 7.62 from that time period. I shot the FN C1 when I was in the Canadian military in the late 70s to early 1980’s and I don’t recall it being particularly accurate, but that was before I actually learned how to shoot. I have some IVI Mk 8z .303 (issued to the Canadian Rangers) that shoots fairly decent. Not sure what the production years are.
The No. 4 7.62 Conversions were plagued with accuracy problems from the beginning. Many methods of stocking up were tried, even a fully bedded barrel all the way to the muzzle. Some believed that the No. 4 could never be made to shoot the 7.62 NATO cartridge accurately. Eventually it was resolved with a 4 lb free floating barrel, but I think the root of the problem was poor quality control of the service ammunition at the time, not just in Canada, but in the UK as well. How could it shoot accurately when charge weights varied by as much a 3 grains! As handloaders, we strive for +/- 0.1 grains! Service Rifle matches were always shot with issue ammunition at that time, and the British NRA and Canadian DCRA didn’t start paying attention to manufacture of ammunition specifically intended for the major matches (Bisley and Connaught annual meetings) until they exhausted all the tricks of accurizing the No. 4. It wasn’t until the later part of the 1960s that they caught on to the ammunition problem. What is interesting is that the Bisley rules changed because of this problem. Numerous other rifles chambered for the .308/7.62 cartridge were allowed by 1968/69. Until that time, only the No. 1, No. 3 or No. 4 rifles were allowed in the SR(b) matches. Competitors were very dissatisfied with the 7.62 conversions, but they knew the days of issue .303 ammunition were ending as it was no longer a service cartridge, so something had to be done. |
|
Sgtrick
Groupie Joined: April 28 2020 Location: Saskatoon Sask. Status: Offline Points: 29 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Britrifles, thanks for the repy. Very informative. I think I will pull some of this 1961 DA and 77 IVI apart and check them as you did. It would be a good winter project. While the weather is decent im trying to get the rifle shooting with powder coated cas bullets. The first outing and load shot into an inch at 50 yds. Looks promising.
|
|
britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
With the 168 gr Sierra MatchKing, DA ‘59 or DA ‘62 Case, WLR Primer, 40.0 gr Varget, I shot this group at 600 yards prone in sling with my UF 56 Mk 2 DCRA rifle. Target is the NRA Mid Range target with 12 inch (2 MOA) 10 ring and 6 inch (1 MOA) x ring.
|
|
Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Very nice! I'm ashamed to admit I haven't been able to get to a range all year! COVID. Stare Of Emergency (just renewed) & so on. I am going to absolutely suck whenever I get to shoot next time. |
|
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
|
|
A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
i think its all about the increased testing and supressing the vote , increasing the vote fraud with mail ins - hope it backfires on them ,
ive been at the range at least 5 out of 7 days a week all summer/fall
|
|
Sgtrick
Groupie Joined: April 28 2020 Location: Saskatoon Sask. Status: Offline Points: 29 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Britrifles, great target. Now I know what to aim for.
Wish I had access to a 600 yd range. Ours is 200 and 300yd but limited to black powder at this time. Going shoot some of the DA ammo this afternoon.
|
|
Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Load up some 215 Gr cast bullets over compressed Holy Black in the .303, just for giggles.
|
|
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
|
|
britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Sgtrick, the DA 7.62 ball ammo I’ve shot grouped in the range of 2.5 to 4.5 MOA. Sometimes I’d get lucky with a 10 round string that had no fliers (which were almost always vertical). I’d imagine that there will be variability across various years and lot numbers. Please do let us know how it shoots.
|
|
Sgtrick
Groupie Joined: April 28 2020 Location: Saskatoon Sask. Status: Offline Points: 29 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Shamu. I have shot alot of blackpowder 303 over the years. I used 311284 mould that cast a bit over size , 55 gns of 3f. The bullet was 217 gr and gas checked. It shot very well in my martini carbine. Wish i still had it. Even managed to bag a few whitetails with it.
|
|
Post Reply | |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |