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Enfield No.7 22 Trainer

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jmiles1960 View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 11 2022 at 11:38am
I have a small collection of military .22 trainers and recently learned of this Enfield model. I was curious how difficult they are to find or even where to look. History of the rifle? Production count, etc.  I should probably invest in a Skennerton book.

Any info or advice is appreciated. I don't think I have status yet to post a "WTB", but I'll be looking around for one of these.

Thanks!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2022 at 1:02pm
There's actual a No7, No8, and a No9 .22LR Enfield rifle. 
Not to mention a No1Mk111 converted to .22LR. 
All extremely difficult to acquire but not impossible. Prices can be as low as 1000.00, and as high as 2500.00 here in the US.
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britrifles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2022 at 1:18pm
There are two No. 7 trainers, the No. 7 Mk 1 which was a conversion done by BSA from a No. 4 Mk 1 and also the C No. 7 Mk 1, a purpose built trainer that closely resembles the No. 4 rifle.  Neither were produced in very large numbers.  I’d have to look thru Skennertons book to see if he gave the production/conversion figures.  I doubt there are a lot of these rifles in the US. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2022 at 7:03pm
the Cno7 is fairly easy to come by if your willing to pay the price , they are not cheap , ive owned two over the years , this is a single shot 

the no7 on the other hand is fairly hard to come by , often when you do its missing the magazine which are nearly unobtainable , i think there are some repops but ive not heard good things of them , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2022 at 12:45am
The .22 trainers are very collectable and great fun to shoot. Generally very accurate.
Below is a photo of one of my No8 mk1 .22LR and an SMLE .22LR trainer.
These are more common than the either of the No7 versions.

The British made No7Mk1 was an RAF contract 2500 rifles. 
I am unsure of the production figures for the Canadian made C-No7Mk1. Believed to be around 20,000.
The No8Mk1 production was around 17,000 as far as I know. Very popular and very accurate with the heavy barrel.
The No9mk1 production was around 3000 rifles
if you step into the earlier SMLE trainers; there are many variations and it can start a whole new branch of collecting. but most common model would be the No2MkIV*.

The No8Mk1 above, and below a 1918 SMLE .22LR, both are single shot.

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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britrifles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2022 at 4:52am
Here is my 1946 C No. 7 with a 25 yard target. 

Long Branch used No. 4 Mk 1* action bodies, but marked C No. 7 Mk 1.  The unique bolt head incorporates an off set separate firing pin, the striker terminates at the stop collar which then pushes on the off set bolt head firing pin. The barrel has a No. 4 outer contour, but with a .22 bore (not a sleeved .303 barrel that was used in the No. 7 BSA .22 conversions).  A special rear sight is used which incorporates windage adjustment. 



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britrifles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2022 at 6:10am
I wasn’t able to find a definitive number of C No. 7 rifles produced at Long Branch.  Skennerton stated the first contract was for 7,000 rifles followed by order in late 1944 for another 10,450 rifles.  Another batch of about 1000 rifles were built in 1951-52, presumably under a third contract.   So the total may be approx 18,450.  

I recall using the No. 7 trainer when I was in the Canadian Army Cadets in the early 1970’s.  We used those same rifles in the Canadian Army Reserves in the late 1970’s.  I think they were No. 4 rifles with the barrel sleeved for a .22 RF.  It was single shot.  I’m not sure what the official designation of that rifle was.  It’s possible that a group of surplus Canadian issue No. 4 rifles were converted to a .22 trainers using a BSA barrel sleeve (or one made by Long Branch perhaps).  Canadian Reserves and Cadet units all had the No. 7 .22 trainer at the time the Canadian Army and Reserves were equipped with the FN C1 service rifle.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2022 at 8:28am
I can neither locate or afford one of those rifles so, I settled for the alternative.  I bought a .22LR conversion kit for the No1Mk111 rifle and modified a No4 bolthead with an offset firing pin. Found and purchased a No4 magazine with the single shot loading platform and made a similar copy of the No9.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobcat789 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2022 at 2:20pm
Hi,

Those rifles are beautiful. I just got lucky and acquired a Long Branch CNo 7 however the .303 barrel is sleeved. Did Longbranch ever do this?  Or did they just use full .22 barrels?  Is it possible to find a replacement LB .22 replacement barrel?  I am also trying to find the threaded screw, pin and knob for the rear sight. I do have all these parts but the male end of the screw and the knob do not have the hole for the pin. Also, are you at all interested in selling one of your No 8’s?  I am a collector and shooter of these rifles. I have my dad’s No 4 Mk 1 * Long Branch 1942 that he shot in the 1950’s as a DCRA shooter as well as a numbers matching ( wood, receiver, bolt and mag ) No 5 Jungle Carbine. Anyway, look forward to hearing from you. 

Doug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2022 at 5:03am
Doug,

Can you post a photo of the left side of the receiver of your No. 7.  I suspect Long Branch may have done some .22 conversions of No. 4 rifles for the Canadian military sometime in the 1960’s.  I would think these would be remarked No. 4 receivers, striking out the No. 4 Mk I markings. 

 Skennerton says the CNo.7 rifles built in the late 1940’s to early 1950’s used a No. 4 contoured barrel bored to .22 and no bayonet lugs, this is what my 1946 CNo. 4 has.

Odd that the rear sight axis pin does not have a hole for the pin.  Perhaps you could drill the hole?  I don’t have mine with me at the moment so can’t look at it to see how it goes together. I think the pin secures the windage knob to the axis pin.  



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobcat789 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2022 at 6:12am
Good mornings,

Here are some pictures of the left side of the receiver as well as the .22 insert and the right side of the sight and the windage knob. Should the threaded pin be flush with the surface of the knob and not protrude?  At this point, the windage knob clicks once then spins off. It has been suggested that I use locktite to secure knob to threaded screw right at the end to then allow the pin to move the sight. 

Have a look at pictures and get back to me. If you could post me a picture or two of inside your receiver where barrel starts as well as the right side of your sight knob. I just want to see if the threaded pin is flush.   Thanks again. 

Doug 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2022 at 3:30pm
Doug, only one of your pictures came thru.  What are the markings on the left side receiver wrist (where the butt stock attaches)?  That should be definitive if it’s a No. 4 converted to .22 or a CNo. 7. 

I don’t have the rear sight with me at the moment.  

If this is a CNo. 7 at time of manufacture, it could be an early version.  I don’t have my copy of Skennerton with me either at the moment, I think it shows how the early CNo. 7 rifles were marked, and I think he said they were all made with a .22 bore barrel, No. 4 outer contour.  But perhaps some were sleeved barrels. Interesting. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobcat789 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2022 at 3:54pm
Britrifles,

Here is a shot of the band on the left side. The only stamping is a serial number.  It is 0L6882. The number on the bolt does not match. It is 1L9078. It is also marked with the Longbranch stamp as well. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2022 at 4:14pm
Very interesting rifle!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2022 at 3:15pm
OK, it is definitively a CNo.7 as it has a 1945 date and a 0Lxxxx serial number.  Not a converted No. 4.  Interesting its a sleeved barrel, are you sure?  Perhaps a close up photo at the muzzle? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2022 at 7:34pm
longbranch purpose made the Cno7 the barrel should not be sleeved 
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