Another Noob Seeking Info-Photos Added in a Reply |
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machodoc
Groupie Joined: November 15 2013 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Posted: November 15 2013 at 1:40am |
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Although I've been collecting for some time now, this is my first Enfield. I got it in a trade that I wasn't expecting to make, so didn't research it in advance. Now I'm trying to figure out what this apparent mixmaster actually is. I've spent days trying to look up what few markings are left on it, but haven't come up with much ... so it's time for this LE noob to put it before the pros. (I've tried this in other forums with little success.)
There just aren't many marks on this rifle. The receiver ring appears to have been scrubbed, but who knows why, or by whom? There are only a few small marks on the socket. The side of the receiver and the stock have matching numbers, but I can't find a photo anywhere of a stock marked the same way. Anyone know who marked them like this? There's a painted rack number. The bolt has Savage "square S" marks. The trigger housing has a BSA-Shirley mark. The micrometer sight has very small marks that I recognize as from the Union of South Africa. Then there are other marks that I don't recognize at all, but hope someone here will. I'm going to post as many photos as the system will permit me to, in hopes that someone has seen one like this before and can tell me what model it really is (is it marked correctly?), etc. [Edited Note: Sorry the photos didn't show up in the original post. This editor is a bit different than what I'm used to, and I thought they would post the way that I first tried. Thanks for your patience. I really do realize how important the photos are to a question like I'm asking.]
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Old, fat, balding guy ... that narrows it down, right?
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Lithgow
Senior Member Joined: October 25 2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1417 |
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If its got a Savage marked bolt it will be a No4.
Pics will help with further info |
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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yup need photos of all the critical areas to help much beyond whats been offered
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machodoc
Groupie Joined: November 15 2013 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Sorry ... not sure why my pics didn't show up. I tried to post several, but the format for posting here is a bit different than I'm used to. Let's see if this works ...
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Old, fat, balding guy ... that narrows it down, right?
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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its a no4 rifle , the trigger guard is a BSA [M47C is their war code] , the bolt is a savage , rest im hoping someone else sees better than i do ,
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hoadie
Moderator Group Joined: March 16 2006 Location: Niagara/Canada Status: Offline Points: 9003 |
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WOW! he!! of a camera! How bout that paint on the stock? That was discussed in an earlier thread..cant remember wot was said tho(I have sometimers-sometimes, I forget)
Hoadie |
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Loose wimmen tightened here
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Canuck
Special Member Donating Member Joined: January 17 2012 Location: Agassiz BC Status: Offline Points: 3535 |
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Your not alone, Hoadie! LOL....uh what did I just say....dang forgot again. D'oh!
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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
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Bear43
Special Member Donating Member Joined: August 11 2010 Location: Doland, SD Status: Offline Points: 3059 |
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It's a No 4 Mk 1/2 or 1/3, depending on what it started out as. The fore-end was converted to the Mk 2 pattern which means the trigger is hung from the receiver instead of the trigger guard. If the rifle was originally a Mk 1 after the upgrade it would become a Mk 1/2 and if it was originally a Mk 1* after the upgrade it would become a Mk 1/3. Good photos of both left and right side of the entire receiver would be helpful.
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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how are you getting to a mk2 conversion of the mkI from these photos bear ? im not disagreeing with you , im just not seeing it , getting older and missing more these days - need to know
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machodoc
Groupie Joined: November 15 2013 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Thanks - I'll post more photos soon!
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Old, fat, balding guy ... that narrows it down, right?
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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I'm thinking he 's looking at the rear of the forend where the riveted Mk1 tabs have been replaced with the Mk2 cross-bolt?
I'd always assumed that they'd simply put a new Mk2 stock on when doing this, but it is an Enfield after all! |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Bear43
Special Member Donating Member Joined: August 11 2010 Location: Doland, SD Status: Offline Points: 3059 |
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That was what I was looking at, Shamu. It's also why I said we needed pictures of the complete sides of the receiver. What makes me think it may be a convert is the spliced pieces on the fore-end for the transverse screw. I keep forgetting though that the Mk 2 fore-end can be put on the Mk 1. It's the other way around that won't work. So, in a nutshe!! we are back to square one for the time being.
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machodoc
Groupie Joined: November 15 2013 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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OK .. here are some more photos, focusing on the receiver. Summary, so far:
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Old, fat, balding guy ... that narrows it down, right?
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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Where do you see the No4 Mk.2 stamp? I don't see it on any of the pictures!
I think our biggest clue might be the remains of the stamp on the Right side but-stock socket. The pic is looking down towards the trigger guard so the 3 "horseshoes" quite deeply stamped are the bottom of some kind of logo or crest. If we can figure out which one then we're getting somewhere. I was thinking maybe the bottoms of the BSA stacked rifles logo, but it doesn't quite fit. The receiver is not a Savage, (although that doesn't help much) It has the sloping transition between vertical & horizontal on the left side wall & no lightening cut on the right side wall. Both Savage (& as far as I know unique to Savage) features. Wild (& almost certainly wrong guess.) Might the receiver be a long branch No4 Mk1? I ask because of the "grind marks" on the top of the left side receiver. Could it have been a Lease lend LB that was sanitized? There seems to be some grinding on top front of the receiver ring as well, maybe to remove S/A property "arrow in a U" stamps. We know that at least the rear sight was S/A property at some point, but we don't know if it was on this rifle at the time. |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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machodoc
Groupie Joined: November 15 2013 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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In the second photo of this last series of pictures. It's not showing up that well, but it is to the left of the rack (serial?) number, on the other side of the screw head ... but at about the same position on the receiver. I'll try to post another photo, with the light showing that number more clearly.
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Old, fat, balding guy ... that narrows it down, right?
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machodoc
Groupie Joined: November 15 2013 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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I'm waiting for approval on the latest photo. Sorry, but I thought that I'd posted one of those images originally.
So far, I haven't been able to find a match to that. I agree that it may be part of some sort of logo or crest, but it's odd that those three marks would be stamped so deeply, and nothing at all besides those three shows up. Your continued help is very much appreciated!
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Old, fat, balding guy ... that narrows it down, right?
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