Another Noob Seeking Info-Photos Added in a Reply |
Post Reply | Page <123> |
Author | |
Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Sorry I was typing instead of approving! Now I see it.
That actually helps, even if it shoots down my clever theory as LB never made any Mk2's. I'm probably wrong but weren't Fazakerly the only place to make No2's other than Pakistan? As for the crest I'm guessing the original stamp was a bit tilted down & so deeper at the bottom, when it was imprinted, the upper parts were ground off when scrubbing the information & just the bottom hoof-prints remained. Maybe?\ What does the seam on the bottom of the magazine look like? A single line going along the middle from front to back like this: ______________ or a pair of elongated letter "Y"s joined at the bottom, like this: >------------< |
|
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
|
|
machodoc
Groupie Joined: November 15 2013 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 12 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Man ... I'm not seeing any seam. The mag appears to have been scrubbed. Here's what I've got .... |
|
Old, fat, balding guy ... that narrows it down, right?
|
|
machodoc
Groupie Joined: November 15 2013 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 12 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The three marks on the socket ... might they be parts of the "star" shown in this photo? And, if so, what is the meaning of that star mark?
|
|
Old, fat, balding guy ... that narrows it down, right?
|
|
Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
I don' think so.
The * (asterisk) is a notation that there has been a slight modification to a Model & Mark, but not enough of a change to be a new mark. Your rifle is a No4 Mk2, there never was a No4 Mk2* only the No4 Mk1 ever became a (*) model but it had a different bolt catch. If you unnerstann the British Model, Mark, revision tier it goes like this. Rifle No X (the original version). Some relatively big change is made & it becomes the Rifle No X, Mark 2 Then there is a further refining of the mark 2 & it becomes Rifle No X, Mark 2* Later there is a further big change & we get the Rifle No(X+1) It makes sense eventually, honest. Meanwhile I think I may have identified your receiver, by a process of elimination. Follow me along here its a bit confusing (It wouldn't be an Enfield if it was simple.) Your receiver is stamped as a No4 Mk 2, so that's the real clue here. Royal Ordinance Factory Fazakerly (a suburb of Birmingham in the midlands) opened in 1942. Only Faz made the Mk2 in the U.K. All the other factories switched from No4 Mk1's to L1A1 (SLR/FAL) rifles or other guns entirely. The Pakistani Ordnance Factory at Wah Cantt was the only other factory making No4 Mk2's, but they got Fazakerly's left over equipment to make it on. Pakistani production, some equipment & parts from Faz & BSA-Shirley. But the factory only started in 1947. Pakistani made rifles are mostly walnut wood, Faz are mainly Beech or Birch. |
|
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
|
|
Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
As for the magazine, pop out the follower & spring & look inside, the seam types are here the left being Faz & the other 2 being Savage made.
|
|
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
|
|
A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
yes shamu/bear , mk2 , id not seen it in the poor photos , that is quite obvious when i look now ,
i have miss-givings of the photos as they leave out crucial info and leaving off the final photo would have me thinking some kind of ruse had i not seen this post on other forums , something is just not right here - in order for this to be a mkI/2 it would have to start as a mkI , that said both savage and longbranch made some early on , or the british mfgr'd could be used , to be a mkI/3 it would have been a savage/longbranch as only they made the mkI* these refurbs would ave been marked as such , but whats bothering me here is its actually labeled mk2 , not either of the above , so ...is it a mk2 fitted with a re-cut mkI stock ? there were no conversions of indian rifles to mk2 , and they didnt make the mk2 , nor to my khowledge did the pakistanis , so could this be a kyber pass rifle ?
|
|
machodoc
Groupie Joined: November 15 2013 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 12 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
OK ... I had to get schooled on the obvious--how to pop out the follower. Pretty slick design! According to the seam, it's a Faz ... straight line from fore to aft. The follower also has an F over a 52 stamped into it, so I suspect that's a Faz mark?
|
|
Old, fat, balding guy ... that narrows it down, right?
|
|
Clay Peters
Groupie Joined: August 29 2013 Location: PRK (CA) Status: Offline Points: 41 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
Hi Machodoc,
How does it shoot? Looks like a very nice rifle for sure. Have fun with it. |
|
machodoc
Groupie Joined: November 15 2013 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 12 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hi Clay - It actually shoots very well. I've only fired 20 rounds through it (four groups of 5) from sitting at a bench with elbow on the bench (no beanbags, rest, etc.). Out of the four, I got one group of five (my last one) into a 2" pattern at 100 yards. The other three weren't as tight, but they weren't bad at all. All of the groups were high, but that can be adjusted. I generally shoot for pattern anyway.
|
|
Old, fat, balding guy ... that narrows it down, right?
|
|
Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
Yup its a Faz magazine.
A Square, I don't think its a conversion Mk 1/2, or 1/3, but actually made as No4Mk2. I think the confusion comes from the fore-stock rework & that could have been done by someone after it was made, or even sold out of service. I know the Indians didn't make No4 Mk2's but I'm pretty sure the Pakistanis did using the machinery & tooling left over from Fazakerly. |
|
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
|
|
Bear43
Special Member Donating Member Joined: August 11 2010 Location: Doland, SD Status: Offline Points: 3059 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
I caused the confusion I saw that converted fore-end and assumed it was a conversion. I tell people never to assume.... Well, looks like I need to follow my own advice
Shamu, you are right about the Pakistanis making No 4 Mk 2's and about the machinery and tooling. It was taken from Fazakerley and set up in Pakistan. Machodoc, glad to hear it shoots well. That's the important thing.
|
|
A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
ok , i agree made as a mk2 , and refitted with converted fore-end in after life ,
as to the pakis - im not much up on those but i do have the 'bible' here somewhere , and oddly enough it does not cover POF , strattons volume 2 says POF mfgrd no4 rifles = post war from 57-60? and indicates they were mk2 , so ill buy that , i had thought them to be mkIs for some reason but sinse they never entered my collection i had not looked into them , i did look at the indians as they were once paryt of my collection ,
|
|
machodoc
Groupie Joined: November 15 2013 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 12 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Just another couple of data points. The more that I research these, the more I find out that may be worthy of note:
|
|
Old, fat, balding guy ... that narrows it down, right?
|
|
Alan de Enfield
Senior Member Joined: November 01 2009 Location: Eastern England Status: Offline Points: 241 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The Fazakerly factory was in Liverpool - not Birmingham. The Birmingham factories were BSA, with other factories around the rest of the UK(ie Maltby - Yorkshire, and Enfield at Enfield - nr London.) The Fazakerly, Maltby and Enfield factories were ROF's (Royal Ordnance Factories) ie Government owned whilst BSA was a private (for profit) enterprise.
|
|
Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
As always I stand corrected.
|
|
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
|
|
Canuck
Special Member Donating Member Joined: January 17 2012 Location: Agassiz BC Status: Offline Points: 3535 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Great thread guys!
|
|
Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
|
|
Post Reply | Page <123> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |