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My Sporterized #4 Mk1

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Canuck View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2014 at 9:14am
Randy, what did you use to buff up that brass butt plate? Was it the same material you used for the rest of the project?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2014 at 10:11am
Randy, I think your project has turned out nicely; a major improvement on the sporter you came home with.
I did notice in one of the photos that the webbing strap is on the wrong way around. It is better that the open end of the brass faces away from the wood, to prevent scratching etc. Especially since you've just got it nice and tidy!
If you are going to make the sight adjusters in aluminium, it might be advisable to increase the thickness of the sides for a stronger thread area. My No4 rifle front blade is tight and requires pliers on the wing nut of my steel adjusting tool. I would worry about wear and tear on the aluminium threads if they are only 5 mm deep; but I suppose that may depend on the quality of the alloy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2014 at 10:40am
You could probably use 7075-T651 alloy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2014 at 11:28am
Canuck: after doing a little massaging of the trap cover so you can now open it with your thumb nail instead of using a foot long screwdriver for a pry bar, I used the Scotch Brite Wheel on my buffer to grain the material so all the lines were going the same way. This is a normal process for me in the shop and is used to break the edges on virtually every part that I make. You could do the same with a Red Scotch Brite Pad and some elbow grease.
 
Zed:  I pondered this long and hard and figured that the brass bases of the end pieces would do more damage than the hooks.  I also Deburred the hooks so that they wouldn't scratch the finish,, Then I replaced the canvas sling with a 1907 leather sling. The canvas sling ended up on my Canvas Gun Slip that I got from Sarco for $10.
 
Also on the Front Sight tool  The original was made from a piece of brass that was 1.25 x1.25 x2 it was the closest thing I had laying around in the shop that I could find.  The production tools will be made from 1 x 1.5 x 2 Aluminum, probably 6061.  Both sides will be 1/8" thicker, but just to insure a long service life I will install Helicoil inserts into the sides.  I have a bunch left over from a Navy Job I did recently so they will get put to good use. Also I will be using Hex bolts on these tools so You'll be using a 7/16 wrench to turn the bolts. This should give everyone enough leverage to move even the most stubborn sight.
 
 photo 100463773_zps3c9aa14e.jpg
 
 photo 100463770_zpscbe1901b.jpg
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2014 at 1:12pm
Random (& possibly daft) thought:
If you did a minor rework to the sight adjusting "cramp" (Brit term, 'Mericans call it a "clamp") Could you make a "universal" model?
I'm thinking your design, but "inverted" so it uses the sight protecting ears for a base. That way it would work on maybe a No1, a No4 & a a No 5 (no3 as well????)
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2014 at 6:49pm
Shamu: the problem is the variations in sizes of the sight protector. I had to make the cutout for the protector to sit in about .010 larger than my new replacement part so that it had enough clearance. I have no idea how much variation there will be in just the #4 sights.  Also these guns were made in a variety of places and small relatively unimportant parts like the Sight Guard will vary greatly.
 
There is a guy on Ebay who is selling a simplified version but his requires you take the guard off completely to move the sight. Then it surrounds the round part of the base and then has a cutout for the vertical portion of the base which prevents the tool from moving around. He also has one for the earlier gun I believe.
 
I ordered material for this project today and hopefully I will have something to show by next week, but since this will be a prototype run we will have to see how it works in the real world first and if it works on other guns too then that will be a good selling point. If not maybe I can make a small change that will broaden it's use.
 
Randy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2014 at 4:32am
The steel version I have for my No4 rifle works on my Lithgow No2MkIV* SMLE by turning horizontal and dropping it ove rthe ears of the protector,, as these have holes in the side so the bolt can pass through. The No1 MkIII* rifle I have does not have the holes in the nose cap, which is why it 's more complicated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2014 at 3:32pm
 
 
Well I shot the gun today.  Surprisingly it went bang everytime I pulled the trigger.
 
You never really know until you pull the trigger on a new gun if it is going to work or not.
 
This one did.
 
My target results were a little less than impressive, but the Front Sight tool functioned as expected. I got one 3 shot group at 50 yards that was about 3" but the ones at 100 were all over the place.  I am on the target using the 200 yard setting for the ladder sight, and windage is very close to nominal.
 
I fired about 36 rounds total and really the exercise was more about fire forming the cases and shooting dirt clods and an unfortunate piece of a wooden stump somebody left behind. It died a slow death taking many shots from both me and my Bro in Law.
 
The chamber of this gun is pretty tight and there is virtually no bulging at the case head. There is  some difference between where the shoulder of the cases start and where they end up shape wise. But nothing to worry about.  The accepted practice with reloading these cases is to neck size only until the case will no longer chamber and then bump the shoulder back .002-.004 and start over.
 
My load for these rounds was 25.0 gr of 5744 powder under the Lyman 314299 200 gr boolit.  I think this may have been just a little too much as the 100 yard groups were better than 6" . I will back that off to about 21 gr and start upwards from there in .5 gr increments until groups improve.  If that doesn't work then a different powder will be tried.
 
The barrel on this gun is pretty close to perfect, the rifling is sharp and like a mirror and after shooting it the chamber is not misshapen at all. So the gun will shoot.  I just have to figure it out.
 
By the way that Limbsaver Recoil pad paid for itself today.  Without it I would have been knee deep in Advil by now.
 
Randy
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2014 at 9:14pm
congrats - always nice when things work out well , 

i like that tool 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArcherSix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2014 at 3:16am
good work on that rifle!  I'm sure you'll get it to shoot, but I'm curious why you started with cast bullets?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2014 at 1:15pm
One thing to remember is that with the cut down wood work of a sporter, you loose the up pressure at the end of the barrel that dampens the harmonics; so it unlikely you'll get it to shoot as well as a fully furnished No4 that is properly set up. However that may not be such a problem for hunting as it would be for target shooting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2014 at 1:16pm
I was wondering about that earlier. Maybe try differing up pressures on the front of the stock to emulate center bedding?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2014 at 1:22pm
Agreed Shamu, it would be worth experimenting with bedding at the end of the wood /center barrel region. The No8 has similar wood work to this rifle, and while it's only a .22 with a heavier barrel than the .303; the up pressure on this point does make a difference even with the small calibre. An interesting project in the making!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2014 at 2:04pm
Archer: The main reason is that nobody has any jacketed bullets to load. There is no stock on .312 sized bullets anywhere I have found.
I don't shoot a whole lot of factory ammo,, .22 LR's mostly. 
 
 I have guns that have never seen even one factory loaded round. 
 
I have a Glock 21 that has seen 2 factory rounds. The other 5000 or so have been cast boolit reloads.
 
I want Hornaday 174 gr RNSP's to make my basic hunting load with, and that is the load that the sights will be regulated to for "Mechanical Zero.". Hornady stopped running these a year or so ago and is just now getting caught up with the fast sellers and are breaking off them to run oddballs as we speak. I doubt they will be plentiful in any event.  The demand for .22 and .30 cal bullets for AR's and the like is overwhelming everyone right now.
 
It will also be the flattest shooting load I shoot in that gun so everything else will simply be elevation changes.
 
The Cast Boolit load will be what is shot most out of the gun as my primary purpose for this gun is to shoot Cowboy Silhouette (Short Range 50-200M) with it. This game requires Cast Boolits to be used. I can also use the gun with Cast for Long Range Silhouette at my club where they allow you to shoot off crossed sticks with Iron Sights and Cast Boolits.  Believe me a  200 gr boolit starting at 17-1800 fps will knock a 55lb 500M Ram down easily. At 550yds (500M) the boolit is still moving 1025-1050 fps and has around 500 ft lbs. of energy left.
 
Cast Boolits in high power rifles are not that far behind Jacketed bullets as far as speed or energy and once you get above 35 caliber it gets real close. Above .40 caliber for most intended purposes Cast Boolits are superior to Jacketed bullets.  In the .44 Special or Magnum a cast 260 gr SWC (Lyman 429421 or 429244GC) will go completely thru an Elk at 900fps from my S&W 696 3" revolver or my Ruger SBH. My Marlin 1894 CB 24" rifle shoots these same boolits at 1800fps.
 
At 950 fps we get complete pass thru 36" of ballistic jello with no recovery for the solids, and 27" with a hp version of the boolit.  The wound channel is devastating. I have been told that the solid at 1800 fps will go thru 48" of wet newsprint!  A 400 gr solid from a .45-70 at 2000 fps will go clean thru an Elephant lengthwise!
 
Unfortunately a 30 cal boolit like Lyman 311299 or 314299 for the Enfield, will only poke a 5/16" hole thru said game animal, and as a result a long chase may ensue. They can be HP'd for better results but still you are limiting the capability of the rifle to smaller deer sized game.  With the .44's or a .45-70 which is more of the same + another 50% the chase is seldom more than a few yards.  The 1/2" + hole thru the animal tends to make them bleed out rather quickly.  The .45-70 had taken every species of game animal on this planet by 1900, and today the power of the cartridge is more than double it's original factory loading.  The .44 Magnum has also taken everything on planet earth from Pistols. From Rifles it is about 70% more powerful.
 
The biggest reason for shooting Cast Boolits is the cost.  Once you're set up it is very reasonable.  currently less than .22LR's.  For a .303 you are looking at about .03 for the gas check, .03-4 for the primer and .02 for the powder. or .08-.09 per round and you are shooting a high power rifle instead of a .22.
Also barrel life is unlimited with cast so if you have a special gun that you are not shooting because you're afraid of wearing the barrel out,,, or you can't afford to shoot,,,Like a .300 Weatherby?, you can shoot the gun all year long and get really good with it before hunting season comes around. Same .30 cal. Boolit, same external costs as a .30-06 or .303 as opposed to $4.00 a shot with Weatherby Factory ammo. Yes,,, the going rate is about $80 for a box of 20!
 
I generally find Weatherby cases at my range before hunting season in groups of three.  I conclude that is all the fun that they could take for one day. Ouch
 
I can shoot all day and never feel it! $ or Ouch
 
Randy
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2014 at 2:42pm
Not too worried about the barrel harmonics.  The guns were originally Regulated to shoot a standard load in the configuration they were made as Battle Rifles with full wood so that you could grab the normally hot barrel area and bludgeon your enemy as needed.
 
That standard load was tailored to the rifle, not the other way around.
 
Since I am only shooting reloads,,, I have to tailor my loads to the gun as it is now. This can be done.
 
The Brit's cut the stocks off all their later precision rifles and by then I think the intention was to Free Float the barrels. Also you weren't expected to use the L42 Sniper Rifle as a club or with a bayonet. It is very difficult to predict how the wood will influence the POI in different weather conditions so getting rid of it made sense,,, At least to me?
 
I was originally going for the Look of an L42A1 with no scope, however When I found out about the L39A1 with Iron Sights, my tune changed as it was closer to what I was doing than the L42 scoped rifle was.
 
They are basically the same gun with The L42 having a scope and added cheek piece as opposed to the target sighted L39 with a PH 5C Rear Sight and a Globe Front Sight.  The L42's still kept the original Front Sight with Guard.  I missed a PH 5C rear sight on Ebay that sold for only $145 a few weeks ago, which was kind of a Bummer, but at the time I didn't know that I really needed one.
 
 
The fact that these later guns were chambered for .308 cal. had more to do with standardizing around the NATO round that everyone was using.  By that time the Brits were using the FN FAL as their main battle rifle so it only made sense that the L42A1 would use the same round.
 
Granted the .308 is inherently more accurate and less finicky than the .303 rounds previously used in the #4 rifles, but the ammo standardization was probably the primary motivation behind the change.
 
A guy also offered me a Redfield Receiver sight for my gun but he didn't like my $ offer.  I'm kind of glad he didn't as further research into that sight revealed that it was nothing more than a Redfield sight for a Levergun with an adapter plate made to pickup the Ejector screw and the rear sight pivot hole which gets a  6-32 screw thru and into the adapter plate.
 
I can make the same Adapter Plate but I would mount a Lyman Receiver Sight instead of the Redfield.
 
This way of adapting a new sight to the gun results in a superior rear sighting system and absolutely no modification to the gun whatsoever.
 
 
Then I found this pic with the same style adapter plate but with a Lyman 66A sight mounted to it.
 
 
 
The Lyman Sights have features I like better than the Redfield, like the quick disconnect that allows you to slip the elevation slide to a new elevation and then put it back to a Mechanical Zero after you're done with the previous setting. The Redfield sight has to be physically screwed up and down.
 
I have found many different sight arrangements for these guns. It will be fun fooling with them as they show up.
 
Randy
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2014 at 7:51pm
Here's a before pic of a Front Sight Adjusting Tool.
 
Randy
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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