Kindly identify |
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Ayk
Newbie Joined: June 26 2017 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Posted: June 26 2017 at 10:39am |
Please identify
Is it an original Lee enfield or a fake? |
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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ive never seen that marking , i suspect its kyber pass but you have given us very little to go on , BSA made a lot of trade guns and contract rifles along the way , we dont even know what model mark is on this ,
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Ayk
Newbie Joined: June 26 2017 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Thank you so much for replying. In fact you have hit nail right on the head. Let me fill you in. It is claimed that this rifle is from the armoury of king Amanullah of Afghanistan. Used in previous afghan wars. Let me post more pictures.
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Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 5585 |
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We really need to see photos of the complete rifle; to see what model it is. Then some close up photos of other details and markings.
Seeing as you are in Pakistan, it could well be a fake. But maybe engraving of the mosque and flags etc could have been requested on a private purchase; although I doubt it. |
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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Ayk
Newbie Joined: June 26 2017 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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I have already posted full pix of the gun but i guess moderator is screening my message. It will defintely explain the sitaution better. I really appreciate your input so far. Looking forward to hearing from on this topic.
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SW28fan
Special Member Donating Member Joined: July 02 2007 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2951 |
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There were a number of foreign contracts for Enfield rifles from time to time. Thailand and Iraq comes to mind but there may have been more.
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Have a Nice Day
If already having a nice day please disregard |
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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I think we have a little confusion here between those "legit" rifles sent to the Khyber pass area & the bootleg knock-off copies made there?
This: would be the correct crest for king Amanullah |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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that is a mkI rifle of the SMLE version , it has some really interesting parts on it , they are either original vintage bits or very good copies , the bolt head , the rear sight , the volleys , rear handguard and sight protector , i cannot see the cutoff ,
nifty find ,
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Ayk
Newbie Joined: June 26 2017 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Thank you for your response and it does make sense. So please advise shall i buy the gun or leave it as it is doubtful because of its origin? The condition of the gun is good, the rifling is good, wood stock has aged gracefully and bolt assembly shows natural wear. I have even fired 5 rounds on it at a range of 200m. The group was tight and hit the 8 mark. With all these, shall i drop as a fake?
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Ayk
Newbie Joined: June 26 2017 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Many thanks for finding the real crest. Just for discussion sake, dont the two crests look close enough? The gun manufacturer finesse in engraving the crest in a crude manner at that point in time is understandable. But the question arises, was BSA manfacturing custom guns for the then Afghan government?
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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One of the ways to positively ID a Khyber pass fake is little details in the markings. Many are copied without understanding them by makers who have no knowledge of the scripts used.
I can't be 100% positive, but it is enough to raise suspicions. Are there other markings & can you photograph them? |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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englishman_ca
Senior Member Joined: September 08 2009 Location: Almaguin Status: Offline Points: 1089 |
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Looks to be a legit British made arm.
A private contract from BSA. BSA never sold directly to the public or foreign government, they always went through brokers and dealers. Anybody with the money could purchase as many as they wanted. The trick was to find the right broker or brokers. So could BSA rifles could end up in service in Afganistan? Yes. Research the Citadel Arsenal, Kabul. Some arms of their manufacture wear a similar crest. I would not let that one get way! But that is what the fakes are supposed you do. My RED FLAG is up...... The right side of the butt socket wrist is marked as would be a commercial arm, yet the left receiver ring wears a military proof marking. ??? It might be in the wrong place for that marking too. No Lee Speed acknowledgement markings, which pegs it post 1914. The proof marks should be Birmingham Proof House and not King George military markings. We would need to see pics of the stamped markings on both sides of the barrel with the rear hand guard removed to tell you more. Likely that this is a genuine British made rifle with the military markings scrubbed and embellish with these new ones and a story of being from a King's private army etc. Maybe the story is legit and it was remarked at the Kabul Armoury? |
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. Look to your front, mark your target when it comes! |
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Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 5585 |
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This certainly interesting. Depending on price; it may be worth buying anyway. You could always hang it on the wall if it's not original. Worth looking at in a bit more detail that's for sure.
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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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Yes it might not be an outright fake, but it could be a standard SMLE "tarted up" to look more appealing after routine service in the theater.
This is where serious in depth research from reputable sources counts. Google the crest & why its important that it has the surrounding laurel wreath, I think its relevant. That would seem to be the crest of the 1928 Afghani air force! (scroll down, its towards the bottom) http://www.artiklar.z-bok.se/Afghanistan-1.html |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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as said , depending on price , i would scarf it up , you say you have shot it - the worst is over
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Pukka Bundook
Senior Member Joined: February 02 2015 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1369 |
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I believe this is a good legitimate rifle, and well worth buying.
The Kabul arsenal marks vary quite a lot. See this thread for variations in the Kabul markings; I am sure on that forum there are better threads, as I have seen them, but don't have time to do a search right now. Very nice rifle I think! Richard.
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