What is this Ammo? |
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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Posted: February 09 2018 at 5:56am |
I think they were the 7.62 (L4A4) Brens?
They probably had some stored because the magazine feed was better than the belt in bad conditions. L4A4 in front Jimpy behind. |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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hoadie
Moderator Group Joined: March 16 2006 Location: Niagara/Canada Status: Offline Points: 9003 |
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Speaking of that...Tony Sugden (R.I.P.) told me that when he went to the Falklands, they had pulled Bren guns out of storage for the festivities.
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Loose wimmen tightened here
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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That would be the smart thing to do, which pretty much guarantees it won't be done!
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Pedro
Senior Member Joined: February 20 2016 Location: Cumbria, UK Status: Offline Points: 192 |
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I do wonder if, perhaps for a while whether the Rangers' LE rifles, once replaced will be put into store and kept. That way, if more rifles are needed for some emergency or the replacement rifles prove to be problematic in some way, they are covered. I can see some desk jockey thinking along those lines. Let's face it, there's a whole world full of Lee Enfields that were withdrawn from service and kept in stores, before the private would-be owner was able to get their hands on them somewhere down the line.
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Macd
Senior Member Joined: January 26 2018 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Be interested to see the other end of that box of cartridges. Perhaps they are soft points. Good info britrifles. The GD site is obviously referring to the lighter rounds.
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britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
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Checked my notes, 10 rounds of IVI ‘04 MK VIIIz chrono’ed at MV=2484, ES=43 and SD=11.6 from my LB No.4 (.3035 bore/.315 groove dia.). Temp was 60 deg F. Shooting Chrony Alpha Master 15 feet from muzzle.
That same day, 10 rounds of DAC ’56 VIIz chrono’ed at MV=2403,ES=54, SD=21. 174 gr SMK over 42.5 gr Re 15 Reloads chrono’ed at MV=2550, ES=60, SD=19. I’ve since dropped my 174 gr SMK Match loads to 40.0 gr Re 15. |
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britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
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Well, that's got me thinking. The Mk VIII bullet is supposed to be 175 gr. The GD website lists the bullet weight as 10 grams (154 grains). I chrono'ed some IVI MkVIIIz ammo a few years back, I'll dig up the results. I know it was higher than Mk VIIz; but not that much higher. Did they change the bullet weight, or is that the data for the soft point bullet (which might be a 150 gr). I'll pull one of the bullets and check. |
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Macd
Senior Member Joined: January 26 2018 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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General Dynamics still was manufacturing .303 up until very recently. I believe they continue to use the IVI brand name. I know that I have .223 cases stamped with post 2000 dates. They also manufacture powder at their plant in Valleyfield Quebec. It makes most of the IMR brand. Shamu is correct. It is more properly Industries Valcartier Industries. Don't ask, it is a Canadian bilingual thing.
Of interest, they specify a MV of 844 MPS or 2769 FPS. That is pretty much identical to 7.62x51 C21 NATO approved "Ball". https://www.gd-otscanada.com/product/cartridge-303/ |
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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IVI Industries Valcartier Industies, CANADA, was made in the 80's & '90's specifically for the Canadian rangers.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Macd
Senior Member Joined: January 26 2018 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Primers are still crimped. New brass. Box looks familiar from what I can see. I suspect that any unused ammo will be recycled but you never know. They don't even sell range brass as surplus anymore. It gets crushed and sold to metal recycling. If the Rangers get to keep their LE's what is left will likely be distributed. This is the best chance to get some, find it online or at shows. The other off chance is that any stocks held by General Dynamics are released for public sale. BTW the MK8z is perfectly safe for rifles and is more accurate and stable than previous designs. IIRC it has a 174 grain boat tail bullet. It was the first CF rifle round I fired from a NO 4 when I was an air cadet at summer camp at the RCAF airbase in Trenton Ontario. That was the 1960's. I know this is somewhat sacrilegious on a LE forum but I much preferred, as did my shoulder, the FNC1 (FAL). |
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Canuck
Special Member Donating Member Joined: January 17 2012 Location: Agassiz BC Status: Offline Points: 3535 |
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They could be reloaded rounds using that brass? But anyhow, we all should be looking out for that ammo in the future if and when it gets released on the open market. What if there is a shipping container or two filled with it?!
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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
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paddyofurniture
Senior Member Joined: December 26 2011 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 5255 |
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Me too.
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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.
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hoadie
Moderator Group Joined: March 16 2006 Location: Niagara/Canada Status: Offline Points: 9003 |
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Sure wish they would release the Enfields to private sales!
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Loose wimmen tightened here
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Macd
Senior Member Joined: January 26 2018 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Industries Valcartier Inc.. IVI in Quebec. (general Dynamics Ordnance Division). I believe they use IMR3031 as a powder and also still use the MK8z bullet. While every Ranger I have known swears by them for hunting everything from seals to polar bears, they are not legal for hunting being made with FMJ "Military" type bullets. Just as an aside they are, by military regulations, not for private sale or resale. Technically they remain property of the Department of National Defence. Each Ranger is issued a set quantity of rounds per year for his or her use. They are not to be given away or sold. Having said that, they are nice heavy brass that benefits from neck annealing after the first firing. I have a thousand or so IVI 7.62x51 brass cases dating from the 1970 and 80's. I am not sure if the Rangers will be allowed to keep their LE rifles after they get the new C19 .308 SAKO replacements. If not, I expect a lot of IVI surplus to start showing up.
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britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
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Valcartier Industries. MK VIIIz I believe, should be marked on the carton.
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Canuck
Special Member Donating Member Joined: January 17 2012 Location: Agassiz BC Status: Offline Points: 3535 |
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A buddy of mine in the Yukon has a few boxes of .303 was wanting to know if it is Ranger issue ammunition. Here is a picture of what he now has. Just a quick question but what manufacturer made this ammunition? THX!
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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
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