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And another great day on the range!

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britrifles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2018 at 5:59am
Very nice rifle Zed, and also very good shooting!  I see four shots in practically the same hole.  Have you shot handloads with match bullets?  

I keep a score book.  Another anal trait of being an engineer.    I’ve recorded just about every group I’ve shot.  I don’t typically record groups in the Standing position, just the score.  It has helped me diagnose my failures.    

The data doesn’t lie, I see the faults in my shooting.  One thing I’ve gotten good at is calling my shots.  And when I do, I mark the hit in the score book as such.  Some days I’m shooting good, other days, not so good.  With the data, I know what my averages are and have seen them improve over time.  The day the subject of the post is about, all my 200, 300 and the one 600 yd group I shot were all 2 MOA or better (with the exception of the standing slow stages, which were about 5 to 6 MOA). 

In bench shooting with a 20x scope, I had concluded that the inherent accuracy of the No. 4 rifle with match quality ammunition was on the order of 1 MOA (average of at least 10 ten shot groups). Gossics results have made me question this.  It might be that his rifle and reloads are exceptional and mine may be more typical.  In bench shooting, I see on average one flier in 10 shots, occasionally two fliers.  I include these as part of the group.  I’ve thought about recording the position of each shot and calculating the mean radial dispersion (mean radius from group center, known as the “figure of merit”), but even for me, this is just getting too anal!  The FOM gives a better indication of accuracy than group center to center extreme spread.  




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2018 at 6:21am
I also keep both computer records & my "range logbooks" which document just about everything imaginable.
I found that with a little development work I could hand-load to about 1/2 the group size of most factory ammo. Particularly the old Mil-Surp stuff from the 40's, which tends to have varying amounts of hang-fires now due to age.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2018 at 6:26am
Shamu, I’ve seen about the same, and even better with some of the factory stuff.  I still have a fair bit of Canadian Mk 7z ball which shoots about 3 MOA off the bench.  I also have some DAC 51 7z used in DCRA matches, much better, about 1.5 MOA.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2018 at 11:25am
That first test was with PPU factory ammo. I have not tried any hand loads in this rifle yet.
Having our large calibre range closed for work meant no practice at all this year before the first competition. Hopefully I should get to a 200 metre range before the end of the year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2018 at 12:58am
Wow! Crazy good targets guys!

Brad
1917 NO1. MKIII ShtLE
1942 NO4. MK1 four digit BSA

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2018 at 6:17am
Several on this forum have expressed interest in match shooting, and I know some of you are very accomplished shooters.  FWIW, I thought I would share with you a few things that has helped me:  

1.  Stop shooting off the bench.  This won’t help you build your position shooting skill.

2.  If your shooting club rules allow, use a smaller apature.  The standard issue Mk 1 sight is easily modified by securing a thin sheet of brass epoxied over the existing apature.  Drill a smaller diameter hole centered on the existing sight apature, on the order of 0.05 inch diameter.  

3.  Use a sling, US Model 1907 type works quite well.  There are others that work well, check your club rules.

4.  Develop a load that shoots consistent in your rifle, if club rules allow handloads.  

5.  If you have trouble focusing on the front sight because of aging eyes (like me), try 1.0x reading glasses.  If that works, you can have your optometrist make you shatter proof shooting glasses.  Mine have 2.5x inserts on the bottom of the lenses for seeing up close. 

6.  Learn to keep a mental image of where the front sight was at the moment of striker release, “call your shots”.

7.  Keep a detailed score book.  This will help troubleshoot errors and bad habits.  I made up exact scale targets for the various ranges and targets used for CMP matches.  

Example of 200 yard Short Range (SR) target: 



And here an example of the 600 yard Medium Range (MR) target




Top left corner of the table “Position” entry refers to the shooting position:  PS - Prone Slow, PS - Prone Rapid, and SS - Standing Slow.

In CMP Vintage Military matches, the third stage is Standing Slow.  This stage takes some work to shoot well.  The temptation is to shoot prone in practice because it gets you better groups, but this match is won and lost in the Standing stage.  I started out with Standing scores in the low 70s.  It didn’t take long to get into the low to mid 90s, but I still occasionally throw shots out of the black 9 ring, even into the 7 ring or worse!  You can see I did just that yesterday on the first target, I had a clean score going into the Standing stage and blew the Standing with an 86/100.   



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42rocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2018 at 7:46am
Thanks for the info and GOOD Shooting.
 
Later 42rocker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2018 at 9:59am
britrifles. Your opening statement indicates that you  find it a personalized challenge to improve your shooting skills.  The company I trained with offers a course in combat shooting exercises designed specifically to hone your shooting accuracy from multiple shooting platforms and axis. Long range target engagements incorporating the bolt action rifle are the norm for this. Acquisition of the target,sighting,and engaging while moving,stopped,standing,prone,crouched,in a hide, modified prone,and three point kneeling. I removed my Sabre Socom .308 from storage if you ever decide you want to visit Arizona.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2018 at 11:41am
Thanks for the advice. I do need to take more notes and also get someone to spot and note the shot position during the practice;(without calling the results to me). Generally I don't use a bench rest. But sometimes if I'm testing some adjustments to a rifle, or comparing loads of a new powder; I will use a sand bag under the front end just to reduce some of my error's. I find it helps get a more regular group to analyse the results of each load.
In our competitions for large calibre rifles; we shoot prone at 200m. 10 shots in 7 minutes and then 10 shots in 3 minutes.
We do shoot standing in the trainer .22 class . So that's 10 shots prone and 10 standing. Using the Enfield trainer's has a minor disadvantage, as it's single shot; where as the MAS 45 has a 5 shot magazine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2018 at 5:54pm
Zed, certainly nothing wrong with that.  Shooting off the bench does have some practical uses.  I will typically test a new rifle and load off the bench.  But then I have had some rifles that seem to shoot more accurately slung up prone than fully supported on the bench.  

My regret is not taking up the sport when I was younger, when I had decent eyesight.  I shot way too much lead down range shooting off the bench, thinking it would improve my abilities.  It did not. All it did is blast away the chamber throat.

Prone Rapid does take some practice, to develop the cadence of breathing, cycling the bolt and recharging the magazine.  The CMP Vintage Military Rifle match prone rapid stage is 10 rounds in 80 seconds.  This includes a mandatory reload/recharge of the magazine.  You cannot load the magazine with all 10 rounds.  80 seconds is lots of time, and with practice, the prone rapid scores will be as good as prone slow fire (prone slow is 15 rounds in 15 minutes, first five are sighters and not for score).  In my practice session last weekend, I had a higher X ring count than I did in prone slow, and this happens more often than you would think.  I have found that holding on to the shot too long can be detrimental to accurate shooting.  Your eye will tire and loose concentration and you will not notice your front sight drifting off.  This is when you realize you have not established your natural point of aim.  

But, I’m now just rambling...





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