No4/No5 rear sight |
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No.2 SMLE
Groupie Joined: July 03 2019 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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Posted: July 09 2019 at 3:52am |
I have a No.4 mk1 rifle here with the std battle sight. I am going to purchase a Mk1 "Singer" sight and fit it to my rifle. Question 1 Can a No.5 Carbine rear sight be fitted to a No.4? I have studied photos of both and cannot see much difference? Question 2 I gather a genuine "Singer" sight is identified by the "S" stamped on it? Example of a No5 sight that to my untrained eye looks the same as a No.4 - Currently on ebay Regards David. EDIT - I have answered my own question, Some internet searching found the answer.
"These sights are of the same 'Singer' pattern as the Mk1 Rear Sight for the No4 Rifle, but are graduated in 100 yard increments from 200 - 800 yards. Due to the different ballistics of the No5 from the No4 Rifle the elevation screw and nut are unique to this sight and are not interchangeable with the No4 sight, so although they will physically fit a No4 Rifle (and vice versa) range settings will be completely different" |
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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only to the untrained eye - most of us here know what that is ,
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No.2 SMLE
Groupie Joined: July 03 2019 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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Yes, I picked up on that quick enough.
Having only just purchased a No5 I was not sure, and as I said, my No4 only has the battle sight. Once I get them next to each other it would be obvious. And the S stamp on the Mk1 sight, does that signify that it was made by Singer? I assume Singer being the same Singer that made sewing machines?
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The Armourer
Senior Member Joined: June 23 2019 Location: Y Felinhelli Status: Offline Points: 1246 |
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The sights are totally interchangeable and actually, on a No4 rifle the No5 sight is better than the No4 sight. I have changed out my Savage No4 sight for a No5 sight. Remember the sights are calibrated for MKVII ammunition, any other ammunition we use (commercial or home-rolled) will not perform the same and hence the sight graduations are meaningless. The adjustments on the No5 are much finer than those on the No4 sights allower much better (smaller) adjustments in elevation. For the 'technical' ones amongst us : There is a difference in screw diameter and pitch. Given the slightly coarser thread on the 800-yard (No5) sight, the "click value" would be some 10% greater than the 1300-yard (No4) sight if both were mounted on rifles with the same sight radius - except for the fact that the 1300-yard elevation screw is double-threaded, giving it an effective pitch approximately double that of the single-thread 800-yard screw. On measuring the two sights, each click of the No.4's sight moves the slide .008" - vs. .0043" on the No.5's sight. Consequently, the 1300-yard sight gives very close to 1.0 MOA per click with the No.4 rifle's 28" sight radius while the 800-yard sight has a click value of ~0.66 MOA with the No.5's 23" sight radius and would yield ~0.55 MOA on a No.4 rifle. |
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Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
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N67 is the wartime code for Singer Manufacturing.
The S inside a square or just the square S is indicative of Savage. The Mk1 Micrometer Sight was made by all the Enfield plants.
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No.2 SMLE
Groupie Joined: July 03 2019 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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Excellent. Thank you.
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Pukka Bundook
Senior Member Joined: February 02 2015 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1369 |
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A number 5 sight Will fit a No 4 rifle, but the ranges are different, the No 5 sighted to a much shorter maximum, but I do not remember exactly what without looking.
(Is it 850 instead of 1300 yards?) Best, R.
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Bear43
Special Member Donating Member Joined: August 11 2010 Location: Doland, SD Status: Offline Points: 3059 |
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Pukka, the max is 800.
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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#5 is to 800yds, #4 is to 1300yds. Yes they are interchangeable but the different ranges, shorter screw travel range & so on make it a bit iffy IMO. The ranges will be off but more importantly the click stops are set up for the shorter sight radius of the carbine also so they will behave incorrectly. I don't understand the point of putting the wrong thing on there when the right one is fairly easy to find either? |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Stanforth
Senior Member Joined: January 08 2017 Location: Oxford England Status: Offline Points: 773 |
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As I am not going to use my No.4 out to 1300 yards I fitted a No.5 Singer Sight some years ago and am pleased with it.
If you look at the image that Shamu posted you will see that the ranges almost correspond on both sights. Either will get you in the ball park and then fine tune at 4 clicks to MOA.
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Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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Also bear in mind you may need to change the front sight height to get a new zero whichever you put on.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Honkytonk
Senior Member Joined: December 30 2017 Location: Brandon Mb Status: Offline Points: 4770 |
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I suspect, the No5, as opposed to a No4, because of the shorter barrel, is the reason for the different ladder increments. Longer barrel, same round, does that maybe equate to the difference?
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No.2 SMLE
Groupie Joined: July 03 2019 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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Great responses everyone. This is exactly what I was after.
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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similarly the indian 2A1 has different gradients ,
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The Armourer
Senior Member Joined: June 23 2019 Location: Y Felinhelli Status: Offline Points: 1246 |
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Surely that is because the ballistics of 7.62 are different to 303. The No4 and No5 both use 303. I explained the difference in the No4 / No5 sights in the post above. |
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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Yes in 2 ways. Firstly the angle of change per click is different because of the shorter sight radius. Secondly velocity is lower because of the shorter barrel.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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