what LE would this be? |
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dbar
Newbie Joined: August 16 2019 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Posted: August 16 2019 at 10:06am |
Hi All
New to the forum, and looking at buying the below LE BSA .303. Would anyone be able to identify a rough year of manufacture from the markings of the rifle. I am unable to see the rifle for a few weeks, and these pics are all I have to go by at the moment. The serial number given to me by the seller is: 39355. It was the sellers grandfathers rifle, and he knows very little about it. A year and any other information about the rifle would be much appreciated! Pics to follow... |
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Bear43
Special Member Donating Member Joined: August 11 2010 Location: Doland, SD Status: Offline Points: 3059 |
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Since it is a commercial BSA rifle there is no way to know what year it was made for sure. Other than that it is in the style of a No 1 Mk III. It has the windage adjustable rear sight and cutoff plate.
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dbar
Newbie Joined: August 16 2019 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Many thanks Bear43...what identifies it as a commercial
BSA as opposed to for military use.?
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MJ11
Senior Member Joined: September 18 2008 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 1882 |
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Nice rifle. Expensive ? It also have the bracket for a target sight mounted over the safety lever.
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The Spartans do not ask how many the enemies are but where they are
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dbar
Newbie Joined: August 16 2019 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Equivalent of about GBP190...the seller, is leaving the country and needs to get rid of it in a few weeks...I hadn’t noticed the mount above the safety!
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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Military issued rifles would have a "Royal Cypher" (crown) embossed on the butt socket (the circular thingus round the wrist of the action) which is actually part of the receiver. It would not normally have the BSA "Stacked rifles" commercial logo. I'm guessing pre 1915 because of the style of the center sling screw swivel? That style with the cast floorplate was replaced with a wire hoop at that time. Another clue may be hidden under the (lower) rear handguard if the barrel is proof dated thats a "close but no cigar" date. The sight using that bracket would probably look similar to this which folded down when not in use. I don't recognize the maker. There were several S/A types made locally: |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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dbar
Newbie Joined: August 16 2019 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Many Thanks Shamu....
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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Glad I could help. That sight bracket is fascinating, its a type usually used with the earlier rifles where there was a different safety system. Have a giggle when you see your seller tell him you'll give him what it was bought for new (not adjusted) 165 shillings @ 20 to the £! thats 8 pounds 5 shillings! |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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dbar
Newbie Joined: August 16 2019 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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The way the exchange rate is going in South Africa, I may well end up paying gbp8 if i give it a few weeks....Thanks again for your input, much appreciated.
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englishman_ca
Senior Member Joined: September 08 2009 Location: Almaguin Status: Offline Points: 1089 |
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The crown BM is a Birmingham commercial proof. 'Birmingham Military' proof denotes that the commercial rifle was proof tested to the same pressures as that of military arms. If I remember correctly, BM was a marking that appeared around 1916.
The rifle appears to be made to the pattern of the Sht.LE Mk.III* with no volley sights and a streamlined fore stock. The commercial Lee Enfields were made under licence from the British Govt at BSA and LSA works, and as such, patents legally had to be acknowledged and displayed. Lee held the patent for the bolt and magazine, Speed and Deeley held the patent for the bolt head. So "LEE SPEED PATENTS" were displayed prominently on the wrist. Hence the term of calling some Lee Enfield sporters made at BSA or LSA, 'Lee Speed' rifles. When WWI hit, all commercial rifle production stopped and focus was on the war effort. Under British patent law, patents last for 14 years (4+10). By the time WWI had finished and production of commercial arms began again, many patents had expired and Lee Speed no longer had to be acknowledged. The Lee Speed marking disappeared post WWI. The wrist on this one says just BSA, no patent acknowledgement. So it could be of post 1918 manufacture. I say could, because there are always exceptions. The lack of patent banner is not conclusive. BSA did not date their barrels on the underside as Enfield did. The rifle has the mounting for a target sight and still is wearing its target sling set up for prone shooting. If you decide to clean it, clean the metal with a soft rag and gun oil, clean the wood with a soft rag and linseed oil. Nothing more. Don't take the thing apart to look at the underside of the barrel, nothing much there to see anyway. It is likely carefully bedded for target work. It is just so easy to screw up the draws and the bedding without even trying if you dismantle parts out of sequence or pull the wood the wrong way to get it off the action. It is a very nice example. Value? No clue, but it is up there. |
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. Look to your front, mark your target when it comes! |
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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i think you got most everything you could on this one , save that i think it a very fine purchase [ would love to find a commercial in that condition here ] if you add the target sight back to her she should be a very fine rifle for the rest of your life , buy it and enjoy it ,
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dbar
Newbie Joined: August 16 2019 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Many Thanks for all the responses, re-affirms my decision to buy and go through the hassle of licensing, will be worth it in the end. Thanks again!
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