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what LE would this be?

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    Posted: August 16 2019 at 10:06am
Hi All

New to the forum, and looking at buying the below LE BSA .303. 

 Would anyone be able to identify a rough year of manufacture from the markings of the rifle. I am unable to see the rifle for a few weeks, and these pics are all I have to go by at the moment. The serial number given to me by the seller is: 39355. It was the sellers grandfathers rifle, and he knows very little about it.

A year and any other information about the rifle would be much appreciated!

Pics to follow...











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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2019 at 11:36am
Since it is a commercial BSA rifle there is no way to know what year it was made for sure. Other than that it is in the style of a No 1 Mk III. It has the windage adjustable rear sight and cutoff plate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2019 at 11:51am
Many thanks Bear43...what identifies it as a commercial
BSA as opposed to for military use.?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MJ11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2019 at 12:16pm
Nice rifle.
Expensive ?

It also have the bracket for a target sight mounted over the safety lever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2019 at 12:24pm
Equivalent of about GBP190...the seller, is leaving the country and needs to get rid of it in a few weeks...I hadn’t noticed the mount above the safety!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2019 at 12:49pm
Military issued rifles would have a "Royal Cypher" (crown) embossed on the butt socket (the circular thingus round the wrist of the action) which is actually part of the receiver. It would not normally have the BSA "Stacked rifles" commercial logo.

I'm guessing pre 1915 because of the style of the center sling screw swivel?
That style with the cast floorplate was replaced with a wire hoop at that time.
Another clue may be hidden under the (lower) rear handguard if the barrel is proof dated thats a "close but no cigar" date.



The sight using that bracket would probably look similar to this which folded down when not in use. I don't recognize the maker. There were several S/A types made locally:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2019 at 1:05pm
Many Thanks Shamu....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2019 at 1:24pm
Glad I could help. That sight bracket is fascinating, its a type usually used with the earlier rifles where there was a different safety system.
Have a giggle when you see your seller tell him you'll give him what it was bought for new (not adjusted) 165 shillings @ 20 to the £! thats 8 pounds  5 shillings!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2019 at 1:31pm
The way the exchange rate is going in South Africa, I may well end up paying gbp8 if i give it a few weeks....Thanks again for your input, much appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2019 at 4:36pm
The crown BM is a Birmingham commercial proof. 'Birmingham Military' proof denotes that the commercial rifle was proof tested to the same pressures as that of military arms.  If I remember correctly, BM was a marking that appeared around 1916.

The rifle appears to be made to the pattern of the Sht.LE Mk.III* with no volley sights and a streamlined fore stock.

The commercial Lee Enfields were made under licence from the British Govt at BSA and LSA works, and as such, patents legally had to be acknowledged and displayed. Lee held the patent for the bolt and magazine, Speed and Deeley held the patent for the bolt head. So "LEE SPEED PATENTS" were displayed prominently on the wrist. Hence the term of calling some Lee Enfield sporters made at BSA or LSA, 'Lee Speed' rifles.

When WWI hit, all commercial rifle production stopped and focus was on the war effort. Under British patent law, patents last for 14 years (4+10). By the time WWI had finished and production of commercial arms began again, many patents had expired and Lee Speed no longer had to be acknowledged. The Lee Speed marking disappeared post WWI.

The wrist on this one says just BSA, no patent acknowledgement. So it could be of post 1918 manufacture. I say could, because there are always exceptions. The lack of patent banner is not conclusive. 

BSA did not date their barrels on the underside as Enfield did.

The rifle has the mounting for a target sight and still is wearing its target sling set up for prone shooting.

If you decide to clean it, clean the metal with a soft rag and gun oil, clean the wood with a soft rag and linseed oil. Nothing more.

Don't take the thing apart to look at the underside of the barrel, nothing much there to see anyway. It is likely carefully bedded for target work. It is just so easy to screw up the draws and the bedding without even trying if you dismantle parts out of sequence or pull the wood the wrong way to get it off the action.

It is a very nice example. Value? No clue, but it is up there.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2019 at 9:01pm
i think you got most everything you could on this one , save that i think it a very fine purchase [ would love to find a commercial in that condition here ] if you add the target sight back to her she should be a very fine rifle for the rest of your life , buy it and enjoy it , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2019 at 2:24am
Many Thanks for all the responses, re-affirms my decision to buy and go through the hassle of licensing, will be worth it in the end. Thanks again!
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