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Front sling swivel

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scottz63 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottz63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2023 at 1:35pm
Yes, that makes sense.
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Shamu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2023 at 2:36pm
Yes the "bucket" takes the weight & prevents undue wear & tear on the mounted troopie's shoulder & the sling stops it falling out of the bucket! Makes perfect sense!
[edited] Staring hard at it I think I can just see a short piece of sling behind his elbow & another diagonally over the top of his other shoulder? It s parallel to the bandolier strap but slightly higher.I admit I wasn't thinking of that type of "bucket" but the longer scabbard type.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2023 at 2:37pm
I believe you are correct, Shamu.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2023 at 6:21am
Originally posted by Honkytonk Honkytonk wrote:

I would say the Armourer's second picture down utilizes the sling configuration in Shamu's picture.

By jove - I think you could be right young fella.


Maybe it is a very, very early 'bucket, or maybe a 'wartime expedient' (utilising a horse feed nose-bag ?) but used in that way it would need supporting 'from the shoulder.'

The later (?) 'bucket' was more of a scabbard with the rifle fitting inside.

The 'bucket' as we know it today certainly predates 1890 (as the Loc shows)





Can anyone put a date to the "uniform" or equipment for this picture ?






And there is more from the 'archives'



The original L-E cavalry carbines did not have a fitting for a piling swivel. When the SMLE was introduced in 1902 (LoC 11715, 23 dec.1902) it stated that piling swivels would only be fitted for naval service. LoC 11947, dated 14 Sept.1903 cancelled the previous para. and re-introduced the SMLE with modifications, but made the same statement about piling swivels.


Loc Para. 12992, 26 Sept. 1905, introduced new swivels which were 1/8th inch narrower than the previous type "to facilitate the insertion of the rifle in the new pattern of rifle bucket (LoC 12714). Officers commanding Cavalry units will demand two of the new pattern swivels per short rifle on charge, and will return the old pattern swivels to store". LoC 12714 had introduced the rifle bucket for the SMLE to replace the carbine bucket.


LoC 13509, 2 July 1906, introduced various changes to the SMLE Mark I and II, stated that "Swivel, piling - (30 July 1905) A piling swivel is fitted in the nose-cap of all rifles, except for Cavalry."


Finally, List of Changes Paragraph 16509, Rifles, short, M.L.E.. dated 2nd july 1913 states:

Rifles of the above pattern which are intended to be carried in the cavalry patten rifle bucket, or in covers on limbers, etc., will be issued without the piling swivel.

Piling swivels in rifles already issued and carried in either of these methods will be removed and returned to store, the swivel screw being replaced in the nose-cap of the rifle.

The paragraph relating to Swivel, piling in LoC 13509, as amended by list of Changes, dated 1st May, 1907, and 1st May, 1909, is hereby cancelled.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote shiloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2023 at 10:12am
Uniform looks to be Boer War or early WWI, he`s wearing a leather ammo belt pattern 1903? and the bucket look correct for that period. 
shoot em if you got em
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2023 at 12:23pm
I found several images of this style, some are made of wood, others of leather, & is described as a "Rare Boer War pattern Cavalry Carbine bucket, Carrier."

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2023 at 12:27pm
Then I found this little gem.look at the slings!
(C) Alamy stock.

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/CBB8DR/boer-war-yeomanry-cavalry-troopers-with-rifles-and-campaign-hats-CBB8DR.jpgBoer war yeomanry cavalry troopers with rifles and campaign hats Stock ...
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2023 at 12:48pm
A bunch of Breaker Morants 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2023 at 1:01pm
"Elementary, my dear Watson." The Case of the Mysterious Lee Enfield Sling" is solved! Bravo, Baker Street Irregulars!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2023 at 1:32pm

OK Sherlocks - which 'bucket' would have been used by these guys ?





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2023 at 2:32pm
A Khyber Pass bucket?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2023 at 3:03pm
Why, a "Cow Catcher! What else? Clown
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2023 at 7:29pm
"Charge of the Yak Brigade!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2023 at 4:02am

A little information about our 'Yak Rider' in the centre of the picture :


Even away from the battlefront, Indian soldiers like Awal Nur made themselves indispensable in more covert operations. Despite having served in Belgium, France and East Africa from 1914 to 1917, and having been wounded thrice, Nur’s most extraordinary exploit was on His Majesty's secret service. Nur was one of 16 Indian soldiers specially chosen to join British officers on a secret Indian Army mission into Soviet Central Asia in early 1918. On the direct orders of London, this mission's goal was to stop Soviet resources in Central Asia from reaching the Germans by railway and the Caspian Sea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smerdon42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2023 at 9:27pm
Now gents lets not forget the ALH and the Camel corps in ww1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2023 at 7:37pm
i love these topics that result in so much info , these always peak my interest as the cavalry carbineswere the ones i missed out on - passed on one when i shouldn't have 
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