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Goosic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2018 at 9:16am
Originally posted by Perentie Perentie wrote:

I did a chamber cast.
The throat diameter is .318"
The groove diameter as best as I can measure across the 5 grooves is .316 or 7"

A fired case mouth ID is .313 and OD .343.
The Sierras I was using are .311 so there was a bit of a gap.
The biggest bullet I can get in the case mouth would be .314 which still isnt going to fill the throat or groove diameter unless I cast some lead and get bumpup.

I have some commercial hardcast bullets here I can size to .308 and will paper patch them to .314 and give that a go.
Perhaps I should remove the fore end as suggested and see what happens. Just put the bare barrel on the rest.

You have a wore out barrel partner. Nothing more,nothing less. A .303 bullet is .311-.312 diameter. You're measurements indicate .316-.317 across the grooves. That bullet is not being captured by the grooves at all when it's bouncing down that barrel. Paper patching a bullet that is smaller then the intended and correct bullet and then firing that round through an already wore out barrel should lead to pretty interesting developments.
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Shamu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2018 at 12:14pm
I'm not sure its actually worn out!
Many L-E barrels were oversized at manufacture, that may be the problem. Usually the answer is cast bullets matched to bore diameter or as you say paper patching.


Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2018 at 1:13pm
Another issue that pops up with 303 rifles from time to time is  Cupro-nickle fouling.  A fair amount of 303 British military ammo was loaded with bullets with Cupro-nickle Jackets.  Giving the bore a good cleaning with a metal fouling specific solvent  might help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2018 at 1:23pm
I tend to agree with Goosic. The wear is at the throat due to erosion. Difficult to get the bullet to set up concentric to the bore. Hence paper patching of the fattest possible bullet that will fit in the cartridge and still chamber might work, it is a least worth a try.

If not, then change out the barrel. Lots around still. Same threads in a Martini, MLE, SMLE.
SMLE barrel will need to be set back one thread, rechambered, head spaced and the extractor cuts made. Somebody with a metal lathe needed.

Or make it a project to retrofit the retrofit, retrofit, and take it back to a 22 again with the fitting of a barrel liner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Perentie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2018 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

I'm not sure its actually worn out!
Many L-E barrels were oversized at manufacture, that may be the problem. Usually the answer is cast bullets matched to bore diameter or as you say paper patching.



Thanks for that link. Interesting reading. makes me feel not so bad after all.
There may be hope yet.
I feel sure its not a worn barrel I have, just one of those a bit oversize.
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A square 10 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2018 at 10:05pm
just out of curiosity - it says "converted for soci........" was this once converted to a 22cal trainer then reconverted to 303 ? only reason i ask is because i have an 1888 martini enfiel that was converted to 22cal then reconverted to 12ga trap gun , i find them interesting , it might explain the lack of accuracy should the conversion have been made with worn bits , just a thought ....

an afterthought with reviewing the photo - it looks to have been done by bonehill - mine was too on the 22 conversion , 

is there a crack in the wrist of that stock ? that could cause issues as well , 
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Goosic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2018 at 10:29pm
I grabbed my micrometer and then grabbed a spare No4 Mk1 barrel and took some measurements. Groove to groove, .306.65. Lands to lands, .285.50-.290.10. Checked the Faux sniper rifle groove to groove .307.00 lands to lands .284.65. No4Mk1* Savage, .306.75 .284.95 respectively. That averages out to .306.80. (Coincidentally a .308 Hornady 168 grn BTHP produces some pretty surprising results ran through a Savage two groove barrel.) If you are wanting to paper patch,use a Sierra 7.7 Jap. It should work out a .317 diameter...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Perentie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2018 at 1:23am
Originally posted by A square 10 A square 10 wrote:

just out of curiosity - it says "converted for soci........" was this once converted to a 22cal trainer then reconverted to 303 ? only reason i ask is because i have an 1888 martini enfiel that was converted to 22cal then reconverted to 12ga trap gun , i find them interesting , it might explain the lack of accuracy should the conversion have been made with worn bits , just a thought ....

an afterthought with reviewing the photo - it looks to have been done by bonehill - mine was too on the 22 conversion , 

is there a crack in the wrist of that stock ? that could cause issues as well , 

Yes it was a Bonehill conversion to .22 then converted to .303. The crack in the stock is stable, no movement.
I will pull the forestock off and try it just resting on the rear of the bare barrel and see what happens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Perentie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2018 at 1:29am
I PP,d these so will try them with different loads. Patched to .315.
I still cant decide if paper patched lead bullets should have a gas check or not, with smokeless.
IMG_2272 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2018 at 5:52am
I thought the rear of the patch covered the bullets base, effectively forming a gas check of sorts?
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pukka Bundook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2018 at 6:12am
Perentie,
 
Before you get too far in this, just get some flat based bullets, say Hornady if you can, (.312")  and try these for a start. 
I had a Long Lee with a worn breech, (bullet slid forward to pretty near the rear sight position before it touched the sides!)   and it still shot Very well for some reason.
 
Don't panic to start sticking new bits on, just shoot it with a flat based bullet for a start....and do let us know what happens!
It may shoot better with long bullets as well, like the 215gr.
 
All the best,
Richard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2018 at 11:23am
Pukka. My No4 Mk1 shoots like a dog until the barrel fouls. Like a dozen shots. Everything I shoot is flat bottom. I did the bullet in the muzzle check and it seemed not bad. I'm at a loss, other than I believe what Goosic said about the breech being worn. Barrel was quite copper fouled when I picked this rifle up. Maybe I removed to much copper?😁
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2018 at 2:49pm
Hmmm..when I was in the photographic industry, we used to say:" sir, there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the camera..have you checked the operator?"
Loose wimmen tightened here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2018 at 3:15pm
I'm the first one to admit I haven't shot alot in the last 10 year's. This summer, I've put about 400 rounds down range through my 5 Lee Enfields. After finding the right load, my worst grouping was 4" @ 100 yds. Open sites on my No 5 Battle Carbine. All other rifles (scoped) were at worst 2" groups. This beast, scoped with a 4x, after a good bore cleaning after each trip to the range would start out at about 8" MOA. After about a dozen rounds, it would settle in to about a 4" group. I'm not the best marksman, but consider myself about average. I'm truly at a loss...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2018 at 6:10am
The big nut right behind the focal plane!
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Perentie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2018 at 10:18pm
Well I took off the fore end stock and shot 5 of those red hard cast paper patched with 28 grns of 2206
Still getting verticle dispersion about 7" high and 3" wide
So that does not seem to have made much difference.
IMG_2273 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/]
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