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Tried a new (to me) Bore Cleaner

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paddyofurniture View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddyofurniture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2023 at 11:40am
I am still using the old WWII bore cleaner left overs.
Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2023 at 12:51pm
I have used the SLP 2000 EWL  from
oil for really massively stubborn carbon on things like the FAL gas piston Face.
It seems to work better than most advertised "cleaners oddly enough!
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2023 at 1:30pm
I’m going to see how C4 works on my AR-15 bolts next time…
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2023 at 3:40pm
Follow up. I borescoped my No. 4 Mk 2 DCRA 7.62 Conversion and tried the Bore Tech C4. This barrel has 2280 rounds thru it. I’ve fired 220 rounds since it was completely cleaned with JB bore paste. 

I typically shoot about 40 to 50 rounds then clean with Hoppes 9, twice a day for two days, leaving it soak. Just using a 1.5 x 3 inch patch rolled on a Parker Hale jag. 

Here’s after cleaning with Hoppes, about 5 inches forward from the frond end of the chamber.  There was no copper, but some carbon accumulation. 



After cleaning with C4, following instructions on the bottle except brushing with a new bronze brush, about 8 strokes. 



But, the first two inches of rifling remained fairly dark with carbon, pic below.  It seems to be too hard for the C4 to remove completely. I think this is fine, but perhaps do a full clean of the first few inches of the bore with JB every 500 rounds or so. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2023 at 4:44am
Well, found something interesting with this C4 bore cleaner and the effectiveness of Hoppes 9. 

Went to the range yesterday to shoot my 69L No. 4 Mk I/3 after the bore had been fully cleaned with Hoppes and C4. Also shot my 0L No. 4 Mk I/2.  Put 40 rounds thru the 69L and 20 rounds thru the 0L. 

When I got home, I did the usual first cleaning with Hoppes, two wet patches scrubbed up and down the bore a few times and let soak for a few hours until the evening.  Then scrubbed with clean patches and reapplied the Hoppes to soak overnight. This morning, I wiped the bore dry with clean patches then borescoped.  Both rifle bores were still quite dark with carbon and some copper mixed in.  I normally repeat this process for a few days at which time the bore comes out fairly clean.   

Note how dark the grooves are here, after overnight soak in Hoppes 9:



Note, a bit of copper on the lands:



I then did one round of C4 cleaning per the instructions. Pushed three wet patches thru the bore (1 thru 3 below) then brushed 8 strokes followed by two more wet patches (4 and 5), let soak for 10 minutes, then pushed thru a dry patch (6). This took a lot of carbon out that overnight soaking in Hoppes did not. Note that patch 6 has a fair bit of blue from the copper, which I didn’t think the C4 would touch. 



Borescoped again and note the difference with the photos above. I’d say about 90% of the carbon was removed from the grooves and almost all copper removed from the lands.  Hard carbon right at the throat didn’t look much different. 



I’m going to continue to let the 0L soak in Hoppes over the weekend, which I expect will loosen and clean out some of the carbon.  It does seem that Hoppes 9 needs several days with reapplication to remove the majority of the fouling whereas C4 is very effective just with one application. 

I should add that I don’t use straight Hoppes 9, I add a bit of Kroil which seems to help loosen fouling when left to soak for a few days.  Learned this from a gunsmith/shooter friend. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2023 at 1:48pm
Yeah, Hoppes will eat it all eventually but I always did a patch out (till dry & clean looking) swab in (3 wet patches) every night followed by a swab in (3 more wet patches) the next morning. Rifle stood muzzle down the whole time.
It cleaned really well, even corrosive, I called it patching out for 5 minutes, for a week! Embarrassed
Then in came the pneumonia & out went the Hoppes! Dead

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2023 at 3:56pm
I love the smell of Hoppes in the morning….

As an aside, the “shot out” barrel in the Fulton regulated 69L grouped pretty good after I had cleaned it well with C4. My first three shots were high, #2 and #3 in the same hole, then lowered the rear sight by two clicks.  Perhaps getting all that crud out of the bore changed the elevation setting. This is at 200 yards, prone in sling. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2024 at 12:21pm
To complete my trial on the C4, here is a comparison of the bore from the Faz 5 groove on my 0L Long Branch Mk 1/2.  The barrel is pretty rough, based on the firecracking, I’d say about 5,000 rounds of Mk 7z and perhaps half that if it’s Mk7 Cordite that was primarily used when in service.

So, first, the bore after three days of cleaning with Hoppes 9, wiping dry then applying Hoppes twice a day and letting soak (rifle horizontal).  This is about 2 inches into the rifling from the breech end. 



As above, but about 6 inches into the bore, no firecracking, but grooves still pretty dark with carbon and some on the lands too. 



Now, similar locations after cleaning with C4 per instructions.  Note cleaner grooves and very little remains of carbon on the lands. 





This barrel shows signs of fairly severe pitting, primarily in the grooves, which may be a result of improper cleaning after corrosive primers, or incomplete cleaning because of the carbon layer that can trap moisture and/or corrosive primer salts. 

I think I may switch to using C4 on my routine service rifle barrel cleaning. It does appear to be much more effective than Hoppes 9. One application removes most of the carbon, much more than 3 days of soaking in Hoppes. 

 It does seem that bores in good condition clean much more easily than those that are pitted and rough from firecracking.  The Bartlien barrels in my AR clean up much easier with Hoppes than these two No. 4 barrels I’ve shown here on this thread.   Same is true for the relatively “new” barrels in my No. 4 7.62 conversion and the No. 4 (T), 2200 thru the 7.62 and 1200 thru the T. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2024 at 3:46am
I've been cleaning my rifles over the weekend. The C4 seems to work quickly on the carbon. I also had a look in the bores with my very cheap bore scope. Unfortunately the mirror is useless because the focal length is wrong. But looking through the barrels. The Resistance Maltby No4mk1 looks like a sewer pipe! The lands aren't worn; it's had very little use. But obviously some corrosion. It shoots well, but it ain't pretty.
I have copper evident in the other rifles. So need to do a few cleaning sessions over the next weekend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2024 at 6:45am
I’m now a fan of the Teslong Flexible scope that Shamu put me on to. It’s cheap, but takes pretty good pics. They look better than what shows up in this thread.  

Well, I finally came to the decision to rebarrel the Mk 1/3 Long Branch. The rifle was built up by Fultons in 1963 and they installed a new BSA match barrel, beautifully made. Hate to separate the barrel from the action body, but after 10,000 ish rounds, it is not the shooter it was.  I’ve been struggling with this, because I’m probably not the shooter I was too, but trying to be objective.  This rifle was truly a MOA rifle, but groups are now 3+ MOA and I can’t get it to hold the 10 ring with the fliers (it used to hold the X ring prone at 200 yds with the standard Mk 1 rear aperture sight). 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2024 at 8:35am
its always a shame to separate original parts but from what you have said that was already done at fultons in 63 , so if you shoot this in competition you want it capable of competing to the best of your ability , besides that you have a finite number of years to continue competing and should get to enjoy that to its fullest , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2024 at 9:26am
Exactly Mike. That’s what tipped the scales in favor of the rebarrel.  Already got the barrel removed this morning, figure no time like the present. This one came off much easier than the Faz FTRed 0L Long Branch Mk 1/2.  Fultons used anti-seize lube in the threads.  

I’ve decided to go with the Criterion barrel.  I’m going to ultrasonically clean the action body and parts, then do a test fit. Hopefully the barrel will index correctly. Should have this reassembled in a few days. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2024 at 10:08am
looking good so far , hope all goes well , i know you will succeed in keeping it a shooter 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2024 at 10:23am
I’ll start a new thread on this. 

I dug out the Criterion barrel, it gages between .3025 and .3030, the .3030 pin gage does not enter the bore from either end. It’s a 5 groove left hand twist too, I didn’t remember that. Also came with breeching up washers so should have no trouble indexing the barrel.

These were supposedly short chambered, but a Mk 7 cartridge drops all the way in. I checked the throat length with the Hornady OAL Gage with a 174 SMK and it’s at 3.098 touching the lands. A bit longer than I would like, but an enormous improvement on the old barrel that was over 3.6 inches (bullet out of the neck before contacting the lands). 



The bore sure looks pretty, nicely lapped. Throat a tad rough but finish reamer and break in will take care of that. 

Wished I had bought a few more of these barrels when they were available. 

Action body is in the ultrasonic cleaner now. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2024 at 10:45am
Looking forward to seeing the progress with that rifle.
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