Enfield-Rifles.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Enfields > Enfield Gunsmithing
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - No4 Mk1 cracked stock at recoil area
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

No4 Mk1 cracked stock at recoil area
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
micrometer View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: December 26 2023
Location: Rocky Mtn, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 18 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micrometer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2023 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by Doco Overboard Doco Overboard wrote:

You could also remove the tie plate, wash the wood out with acetone or other solvent,
Mix up tite bond with some water. Blow it into the crack with some compressed air.
Apply more glue and clamp tightly.
But thats not worth the effort without inserting a wood dowel through the pin/nail hole and either gluing or bonding it in place. Then clamping.
 That's where the strength in the repair is going to come from. The dowel.
When you drill through the dowel, only the exterior will remain dependent on the size of the pin. Just like in the picture. If you make the end of the dowel off flush to the in letting and just a little more, when the pin is inserted and the rounded ends of the tie plate are squeezed together, they will capture the new pin like a spring and the pin will not have to be peened over.
A good way to get a nail or pin out is to heat it while pulling with pliers and it will burn itself tension free of the wood.

In order to drill nice and straight and your lucky enough to have a drill press with a vise or even a clamp.Drive a nail into a square block of wood and adjust the press table to where the chucked wood bit meets the clamped block and pointed nail squarely.
 Plumb your stock in between the bit and on the nail where you want the bit to meet after marking the holes so the stock is true to level and the horizontal and check with a small square to the rear of the stock on the press table and bore the hole right on through. When you squeeze the tie together, its grabbed onto the pin almost permanently.
Your only peening the ends for good measure and appearance and to prevent vibration. Softening the pin is helpful depending how hard it has been made.


Would a 304 stainless steel rod in place of the wooden dowel be a stronger fix?
Back to Top
micrometer View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: December 26 2023
Location: Rocky Mtn, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 18 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micrometer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2023 at 5:32pm
Thank you all for enlightening me on the repair of this cracked stock. I learned so much on this new to me SMLE no4 mk1. 

So here is my current proposed fix, 

1. Carefully dremel off the small end of the brass pin so I can drive it out.

2. Remove the strap.

3. Repair the crack with Titebond III.

            a. Slightly spread open the crack.

            b. Clean it with alcohol. Let it dry.

            c. Drizzle the glue into the crack using compressed air until it’s full.

            d. Clamp the stock until dried.

4. Measure the diameter of the brass pin.

            a. Use a slightly larger diameter (1/8”) 304 stainless steel rod.

            b. Drill open the wood hole to fit the steel rod. Also provides new wood for the epoxy adhesion.

            c. Drill open the holes in the strap to allow the steel rod to pass through.

            d. Measure the length of the steel rod to fit flush with the outsides of the strap.

            e. JB weld this rod and strap into place using a clamp.

            f. Let it dry.

5. Peen a dome over the brass pin at the dremeled end. Cut off the ends of the pin so only the domed

    ends remain.

            a. epoxy these in place to preserve the original look.


I hope this solution is useful for others that might need to do such a repair. I hope to give back a little for all the generous time experts donated.

Regards,
Mike
Back to Top
Doco Overboard View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: January 26 2020
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doco Overboard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2023 at 9:57pm
I'm looking at the picture supplied by the OP and the draws appear to have already been replaced.
One of the pictures it even looks like the repair for the left lug is almost vertical at or near the top but the picture is not clear because of the view.
The crack at the rear of the stock also seems to favor that side.
Its hard to say, but I'm thinking it could be possible that the front of the repair may have suffered or the crack initially developed before the draws were replaced and just developed later on in service.
At any rate, while its apart for repair would be a good time to go over all that sort of thing and get things squared up.
Back to Top
micrometer View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: December 26 2023
Location: Rocky Mtn, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 18 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micrometer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2023 at 11:03pm
Originally posted by Doco Overboard Doco Overboard wrote:

I'm looking at the picture supplied by the OP and the draws appear to have already been replaced.
One of the pictures it even looks like the repair for the left lug is almost vertical at or near the top but the picture is not clear because of the view.
The crack at the rear of the stock also seems to favor that side.
Its hard to say, but I'm thinking it could be possible that the front of the repair may have suffered or the crack initially developed before the draws were replaced and just developed later on in service.
At any rate, while its apart for repair would be a good time to go over all that sort of thing and get things squared up.

Here are additional photos. I don't know enough if this shows previous repair work done to the recoil area. If so, it appears to be done quite well.
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 20510 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2023 at 1:54pm
Further forward.
Where the little brass plates are fitted to this Lithgow rifle.

https://www.enfield-rifles.com/uploads/3656/forend.jpg
 
That's where the action actually is "drawn up" (hence the name) into the wood "camming" the rear faces of the receiver. & snugging everything down.


apologies for the slightly fuzzy image, its not mine I snagged it off the web.

Its also why fully tightening the main screw is so critical.
Of course the area between there & the stock rear is all critical as the wood can easily be stressed if not all fitting properly!
I see the point about the draws, maybe being replaced, but I'm not sure if those are dowels holding in new wood, or hardwood dowels in the original wood as used for match bedding? Are there more towards the front of the action?

One thing I would caution the OP about. NEVER "lever" the forend off, rotating the muzzle end away downwards!

This should be done parallel to the bore all the way, the usual trick is a wood block & tap the rear off alternating left<>right, or with a jig that does both together. Big hunk of wood with two blunt "prongs" at one end.Tongue
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
micrometer View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: December 26 2023
Location: Rocky Mtn, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 18 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micrometer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2023 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Further forward.
Where the little brass plates are fitted to this Lithgow rifle.

https://www.enfield-rifles.com/uploads/3656/forend.jpg
 
That's where the action actually is "drawn up" (hence the name) into the wood "camming" the rear faces of the receiver. & snugging everything down.


apologies for the slightly fuzzy image, its not mine I snagged it off the web.

Its also why fully tightening the main screw is so critical.
Of course the area between there & the stock rear is all critical as the wood can easily be stressed if not all fitting properly!
I see the point about the draws, maybe being replaced, but I'm not sure if those are dowels holding in new wood, or hardwood dowels in the original wood as used for match bedding? Are there more towards the front of the action?

One thing I would caution the OP about. NEVER "lever" the forend off, rotating the muzzle end away downwards!

This should be done parallel to the bore all the way, the usual trick is a wood block & tap the rear off alternating left<>right, or with a jig that does both together. Big hunk of wood with two blunt "prongs" at one end.Tongue

Here's mine which now shows clearly there was a previous repair.
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Georgia, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 8404 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2023 at 3:48pm
^^^^ THIS!!!!!

Can’t stress enough about how to removing the forend without damaging it.   The draws on this OPs forend looks like they may have been crushed a bit by pulling the forend off the barreled action at the muzzle. The forend MUST be removed by using a wood block along the rear upper edges of the forend and tapping the wood block with a light hammer or mallet. NEVER pry the forend off from the muzzle end. 

This forend does look like a repair, wood inserted and secured with wood dowels. 
Back to Top
micrometer View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: December 26 2023
Location: Rocky Mtn, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 18 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micrometer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2023 at 7:04pm
Thanks for the heads up! I was not aware of this major mistake waiting to happen to the uninformed.
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 20510 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2023 at 7:34pm
No problem, it's one of the "Stupid Enfield Tricks" we're well known for.
#1 is, of course "mad minute"
#2 is catching the brass between your index & second fingers on ejection so you don't have to go "grubbing in the dert" for themLOL
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Offline
Points: 16998 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2024 at 9:00am
good to get it fixed , looks great , 
Back to Top
micrometer View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: December 26 2023
Location: Rocky Mtn, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 18 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micrometer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2024 at 6:09pm
The repair is complete.

1. 1. Carefully dremel off the small end of the brass pin so I can drive it out.





2. Remove the strap.


3. Repair the crack with Titebond III.

            a. Slightly spread open the crack. Used a shortened .223 case to hold the crack open.

            b. Clean it with alcohol. Let it dry. Cleaned it with ‘simple green’ and a very thin brush. Let                                dry.

            c. Drizzle the glue into the crack.

            d. Clamp the stock (using electrical tape) until dried.




4. Measure the diameter of the brass pin.

            a. Use a slightly larger diameter (3mm) 304 stainless steel rod. I will replace the original brass pin (.078”=2mm) with the 304 stainless steel rod (.117”=3mm). It should provide additional strength.



b. Drill open the wood hole to fit the steel rod. Also provides new wood for the epoxy.


When this dried I drilled open the hole to accept the new 3mm diameter steel rod. This allowed the crack to open up again. I noticed that the dried titebond that overflowed and dried could be easily picked off with an xacto blade. This made me suspicious of the strength of this repair.

I started over again but used JB Weld instead. This time I epoxied the crack, strap and steel rod all at once.

c. Drill open the holes in the strap to allow the steel rod to pass through. I added slits in the rod to increase surface area for added adhesion.


d. Measure the length of the steel rod to fit flush with the outsides of the strap.

            e. JB weld this rod and strap into place using a clamp.

            f. Let it dry.








5. Peen a dome over the brass pin at the dremeled end. Cut off the ends of the pin so only the domed

    ends remain.

a.     epoxy these in place to preserve the original look.

I decided to delete #5.

The repair is complete. I should be able to fire this rifle now.
Back to Top
Doco Overboard View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: January 26 2020
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 279 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doco Overboard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2024 at 3:37am
There you go, now you have it.
That brass rod, or nail as I call it, is not very much is it?
They're pretty soft and not very strong to begin with.
When I glue things together, sometimes Ill pour boiling hot water over the area I want the glue to bond dependent on the conditions.
Itll wash all the oils out but ample time to dry of course is important before using the glue.
It probably didn't hold as well becuase of oil contamination and not being held with a better means of clamping.
But no matter, looks like you got it just the same and the rod will give some additional tension.
Back to Top
micrometer View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: December 26 2023
Location: Rocky Mtn, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 18 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micrometer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2024 at 9:20am
Originally posted by Doco Overboard Doco Overboard wrote:

There you go, now you have it.
That brass rod, or nail as I call it, is not very much is it?
They're pretty soft and not very strong to begin with.
When I glue things together, sometimes Ill pour boiling hot water over the area I want the glue to bond dependent on the conditions.
Itll wash all the oils out but ample time to dry of course is important before using the glue.
It probably didn't hold as well becuase of oil contamination and not being held with a better means of clamping.
But no matter, looks like you got it just the same and the rod will give some additional tension.

My hats off to all those who pointed me in the right direction for this repair.

The boiling water would have been a good idea. I suspect that cosmoline was used while the crack existed and impregnated the area and allowed the titebound to not bind. I did use mineral spirits to clean the crack before I switched to JB Weld.

The original brass nail is quite weak as witnessed by how much it deformed upon removal.
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 20510 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2024 at 10:16am
I like the idea of heat, but would personally go with the old "Hair dryer blowing into a big cardboard tube or box" trick, Chief! Hug
I kind of invented the rick trying to extract all the funky black & brown stuff out of my '14 BSA SMLE the one I call "The La Brea Tar Pits special"
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.07
Copyright ©2001-2024 Web Wiz Ltd.