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Lee Enfield No4 Mk1* Bedding Problems

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rjsummer View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 27 2022 at 6:43pm
I have a 1944 LB No4 Mk1* that was FTR’d in ‘49 at Fazackerly. The barrel has no contact in the muzzle opening. It can be moved around with mild pressure. 

I’ve been doing a ton of reading, I have the Canadian D of D manual for my rifle. I read Peter Laidler’s? ( on milsurps) long writeup on bedding. However, it’s not helping me. Here’s the problems I’ve observed. 

1. Fore stock seems to show no wear in the draws. I can see good contact at the front trigger screw. There’s no contact at the barrel bearing. No contact at the muzzle bearing. Handguards are touching the barrel on top of the barrel. The trigger guard is under slight pressure. When the front trigger guard screw is removed, slight pressure pops the front away from the forestock. With a straight edge, the barrel bearing area is straight, muzzle to receiver area, but the stock sides are low by the middle band. There’s no play in the stock area when assembled, but when removing the stock, its not at all hard to pull the stock away. 
Forestock pivots at front trigger screw, if thumb pressure is held at that screw area. The manuals seem to say that the muzzle bearing is raised. However, it appears that it’s the same level all along. The stock sides and insides do not look to have been tampered with. Looks original.  

2. What I’ve tried. I tried temporary shims at the base of the draws. This brings the barrel down some, still no barrel contact at muzzle, no contact at rear barrel bearing. But this cant be the answer as the rear trigger guard screw is under incredible pressure because of the increased spacing created by the shims. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2022 at 10:16am
The barrel should contact the tip of the stock bottom with roughly 7Lbs of down force.
There should be a "pad" in the tip of the barrel channel to allow this.
There should be no, absolutely zero contact from the hand-guards.

I'm not sure what you're calling "the barrel bearing" or "the muzzle bearing" though.
Are you referring to "the Noxx form"? (the cylindrical area directly in front of the main screw?) & the "pad" in the tip of the forend?

There should be firm contact for roughly 1" over the bottom 30° centered on the bottom center of the barrel channel at the rear of the barrel in the Noxx & a similar contact at the tip of the wood / barrel muzzle.
I'd suggest you take out the stuff you put in at the back, remove just enough wood from inside the handguards where they contact the barrel, & add a shim to the bottom center of the forend & maybe the Noxx.
Basically start at the rear & work your way forward fixing every problem one at a time.

The receiver bottom & the bottom metal of the trigger guard should have full flat contact with the wood, but the barrel should (apart from the areas mentioned) be free floating.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rjsummer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2022 at 10:28am
Yes, sorry, I’m somewhat new at this. The Noxx, I eas calling the rear barrel bearing. ( just ahead of the trigger guard front screw) And I was calling the muzzle bearing the contact area at the end of the forestock. After more thought, I’m thinking because the forestock is low at the rear band, that the band pulls the Handguards down against the barrel. I’m going to try to find a donor walnut forestock just for material, and make the forestock level all the way along the sides. Then the Handguards should clear the barrel on top. Then bed with walnut shims, the noxx and muzzle end barrel bearings.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2022 at 4:49pm
The top of the forend should be strait, yes.
The usual trick for adjusting bedding is oiled or she!!acked, cardboard, like the stuff that shirt backings were made of. Another good source is the dividing strips in boxes of tea bags!
Its gong to be under compression so it isn't going anywhere!
Do't over-shim, a 1" or slightly more length about 3/4" wide & centered on the bottom is perfect.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rjsummer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2022 at 7:04pm
Thanks for the tips. I was trying some maple wood shims. I used my table saw to cut really thin strips of it, like 1.5 mm, 1mm, snd some even thinner. I would have used walnut if i had any. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2022 at 4:27am
I have used thin oak shims for the Knox for bed. 
I soaked the shim in warm water then compressed it to a curved shape between two halves of steel tube of a suitable diameter. Left it for a week to dry in shape. Made a very nice shim. Glued in place.
Regarding the barrel float at the muzzle, my No4mk1/2 has movement at the muzzle because it was centre bedded by Fulton's of Bisley. So check if the rifle is modified for target competition's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2022 at 5:01pm
Make sure here is no other barrel bearing in the forend, many DCRA and Bisley competitive Shooters “stocked up” the forend with the addition of a wood or composite barrel bearing at the middle (sling swivel) band or “center bedded” approx 5 inches forward of the reinforce and then rasped out the barrel bearing pad up in the forend at the muzzle so the barrel free floats forward of the middle or center bearing locations. 

If indeed your barrel has no contact at all with the forend, you will be able to slide a thick paper shim under the barrel from muzzle to chamber reinforce with no resistance and with the front trigger guard (main) screw fully tight.  I would not expect the rifle to shoot well in that configuration. 

 If the forend is making good contact with the receiver bedding areas and the chamber reinforce area, you can correct this problem by adding bedding compound to the muzzle bearing area at the forward end of the forend. You can experiment with using card stock as shims first.  It may be that a previous owner rasped that area out thinking a free floating barrel will shoot better. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rjsummer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2022 at 6:07pm
Thanks everyone for the helpful and insightful ideas. I took a number of hours and shimmed up the draws, the knox , trigger guard and muzzle end. Has proper downward pressure at the muzzle, barrel clear all the way along. Everything seemed great. Went out and shot it only to find that the first trigger pull had dissapeared. Back to the drawing board. After removing all the shims, for some strange reason the muzzle end has skme downward pressure where it was floating before. I’ll just leave it the way it is for now. I really want the original 2 trigger pulls.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2022 at 6:25pm
Trigger pull is changed by shimming at the action, which effects the engagement of trigger "bumps". (Lower is first pressure, upper is second) against the upper face of the "Y" shaped Sear.
If you look at the diagrams I'm attaching you will see how bedding depth at the action effects trigger pull.
This is why you start at the rear. If you decrease the separation vertically between the bottom metal & the actual action in TINY increments, while keeping them parallel,  it will come back. Then you "go round the loop one" more time till everything is dead on.
You can actually assemble the top & bottom metal & spacer without the wood & see how the slightest change changes the geometry. I wouldn't  fire it that way though.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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