|
No1 Mk3 accuracy |
Post Reply 
|
| Author | |
yellowhousejake 
Newbie 
Joined: May 29 2009 Location: Indiana USA Status: Offline Points: 18 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Topic: No1 Mk3 accuracyPosted: October 04 2009 at 7:21am |
|
Good afternoon!
I have finally gotten around to working with my SMLE after getting it "un-bubba`d". First time out at 25 yards with S&B did pretty well. Mostly everything stayed attached and the action didn't settle into the stock. I must have put it back together properly and fit the forearm correctly. I am wondering if anyone has any advice on accuracy improvements. There are a multitude of website telling how to re-bed to No4 Mk1, nothing I could find on the No1 Mk3. I did as I have always done, made certain the knox form was bedded and the back of the action was bedded in the new forearm. I made certain that the barrel was free for the length of the forearm. I made certain that the center band was exerting pressure on the barrel pulling it down onto the spring and stud. I relived the nosecap so that the barrel was not touching. The barrel tension measured at the nosecap "feels' like 5lbs. I no longer have a trigger pull gauge to measure with. Possibly too loose? Overall it seems fine but I was wondering if anyone else had suggestions. Thanks DAve |
|
|
--
Can you shoot a rifle? http://appleseedinfo.org |
|
 |
|
|
LE Owner
Senior Member 
Joined: December 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1047 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: December 19 2009 at 2:22am |
|
Hope you do better than this guy
Thats got to be a real sewer pipe bore.
I thought the barrel is suposed to contact the nosecap at the top, where the edges of the relief cut contact the muzzle, My No.1 had a pair of dimples there already, I suppose from the barrel vibration during firing.
|
|
|
|
|
Col. Faulkner
Groupie 
Joined: November 17 2009 Location: Massachusetts, Status: Offline Points: 21 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: January 31 2010 at 11:39am |
|
LE Owner: That target in your link is like one I once fired with my Galil at 25yds using Wolf 62gr. ammo. I pulled some of the projectiles and they miked out at .2210. What a riot. Thanks for the link-brings back memories.
|
|
|
|
|
LE Owner
Senior Member
Joined: December 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1047 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: January 31 2010 at 4:29pm |
My savage two groove has keyholed every shot with one uncommon brand of ammo a friend gave me to try out. I foget the brandname, but it shot very well in five other rifles all with five groove bores.
The same two groove barrel prints very good groups with most anything else, except Winchester 180 gr soft points, and consistently prints sub MOA with my favorite handloads.
Even when it keyholed every shot with that mystery brand the group was respectable, so tight we figured the bullets had only lost stability within a few feet of the taget.
Too hard a jacket, or too soft a jacket, or a severely undersized bullet can cause keyholing if the bore is at the practical limits for accuracy.
The same rifle that printed the group in the link might shoot very well with a different brand of ammo.
I figure the major cause of iffy accuracy with older milsurps is gas erosion softening the bullet jacket with high temperature blowby. The more undersized the bullet, or oversized the bore, the easier it is to tip the balance.
If I had not found a SMLE with non typical .311 bore I would probably not have bothered getting another .303, even though I finally hit on what may be the perfect all around load which has proven highly accurate in every Enfield I've tried it in with bores that run the gamit in condition and groove depth.
Many years ago when the H&R Topper could be had with a .30-30 barrel I considered rechambering one to .303 and using .308 bullets to get the most from the platform.
The same has since been done with the Ruger No.1, and more recently a dedicated Ruger No.1 in .303 with I expect a proper .311 bore.
The cartridge itself is one of those I'd consider inherrently accurate, like the .30-30 and .32-40 each being only limited by the type of action and bore dimensions of the rifle they are used with.
The old leveractions give adequate accuracy at best, but the .30-30 cartridge chambered in a more solid action has proven itself capable of outstanding accuracy, and the .32-40 chambered target rifles are legendary.
One day I may build a nice falling block .303 on a Winchester/Browning High wall repro action just to see how much can be wrung from it.
PS
Reynolds Lee Enfield book has quite a lot of information on the results of testing of bullet vs bore size when the .303 first came along. Best accuracy was with the .312 bullets and bores at the lower end of acceptance standards, which of course stands to reason.
|
|
|
|
|
Lithgow
Senior Member
Joined: October 25 2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1417 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: January 31 2010 at 8:40pm |
|
Do not confuse the bedding of the No1 with the No4. The No1 barrel should not free float, it should contact the barrel channel from the middle band to the nosecap. the only floating part is from 1 1/2 inches forward of the Knox form to the middle band Muzzle up pressure is not measured on the No1 as it is on the No4.
|
|
|
|
|
LE Owner
Senior Member
Joined: December 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1047 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February 03 2010 at 12:29am |
|
I was just reading a PDF of the book "the Great Munition Feat 1914-1918" by George A B DeWar.
On page 85 he gives the acceptance standard of the Enfield ShtLE MkIII rifle of the WW1 era as 4 out of 5 shots in a group of 1 inch wide by 1.5 inches high at a range of 100 feet, fired by a machine rest and using a telescopic sight laid over the rifles sights.
That would work out to around 4.5 MOA.
One in ten rifles from a run, tested at random I suppose, must put 9 out of 10 shots within a 2 foot circle at 600 yards.
Interesting book. Not much on the Enfield rifles, but a great deal of useful information none the less.
|
|
|
|
|
Lithgow
Senior Member
Joined: October 25 2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1417 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February 03 2010 at 5:07pm |
|
The rifle shooters of the 303 era accepted 3 moa with standard military ammo. Of course, with handloads that accuracy can be improved no end, the military ammo was not that great and minute of man was really all that was needed.
|
|
|
|
|
LE Owner
Senior Member
Joined: December 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1047 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: February 04 2010 at 5:17am |
IIRC Reynolds mentioned that ammunition used for sighting in of the LE rifles was not standard Ball ammo, it was specifically used for sighting in purposes. I'll check to be sure on that point.
(edited to add)On page 65 under accomplishments of the small arms committee it tells of the specially selected ammo used in test firing the Lee Enfield rifles of pre WW1 era.
The ammunition was tested for consistency of velocity if several rifles in any batch failed due to errors in elevation. If the ammo did not met the expected velocity figure of 1960 fps at 90 ft from the muzzle the whole batch of rifles would be retested. Ammunition was kept at a steady 60 degrees F for consistent performance.
Accuracy yesting of the LE was at 35 yards with four out of five shots within a rectangle 1 1/2" wide by 3" high.
I may have run across information on accuracy test cartridges in another source, I'll look around for that source.
.303 ammo of the WW1 era did vary greatly in quality.
Standard infantry ball was found to be unsuitable for aircraft MGs, special lots chosen for dimension and primer consistency were set aside for use in MGs and later the RAF had ammo manufactured specifically for their use.
These may be the origin of "Greenspot" and "Red Spot" .303 ammo. The WW1 aircraft gun .303 was called "Green Label".
This may be the special purpose ammo I've seen mentioned as being sougth out by British Snipers of the era.
US target shooters long prefered .30/06 ammo that had been manufactured for aircraft gun use. The major difference being primer ignition consistency.
Not long ago a WW2 era warehouse in the Northern US was opened up and pallets of Winchester manufacture .303 ammo was found there. The boxes were marked "not for use in aircraft synchonized guns".
Speculation was that the ammo had been turned down by British purchasing agents and set aside for use in Ross rifles which were in limited use by the US Coastguard in WW2.
BTW
A Canadian Ranger I contacted recently tells me that supplies of Canadian MkVIIz ammo seems to have dried up, and that only Mk8z ammo is now issued to the Rangers, along with some soft point hunting ammo for use against Bear.
The Rangers use the No.4 rifle rather than the MkIII, and the Mk8z they issue is from a Canadian company that manufactured military .303 ammo into the 1990's, so the ammo should be still good and of better quality than most of the type.
Reports of excessive pressures of some Mk8z ammo seem limited to its use in tropical climes or desert heat. There are claims that MkVII using Cordite was prefered for tropical use.
India still manufactures MkVIIz ammo, but since India is not a NATO member they may have restrictions on sale of war materials to NATO members during time of war.
Japan has had this sort of restriction by treaty.
India and Japan have contributed non combat personel and aid to NATO ventures in the past, but not combat troops or war materials.
From what I've gleaned from the often confusing dry statistics MkVIIz was more accurate than MkVII in a tight .303 bore but not as accurate if the bore was on the loose end of the spectrum ( a common enough thing) or when the already generous bore of military .303 rifles began to show wear.
A bore previously eroded by MkVII was not very accurate with either MkVIIz or M8z.
Bullet diameters of .303 ammo also seem to have varied greatly from lot to lot, with a low of .309 to a high of .312.
According to Reynolds accuracy was best with the .312 bullets, and better still if the bore measured at the minimum size (.313 according to the SAID drawings but much smaller in some cases).
Since Metford rifling resembles a badly worn bore to begin with I would expect that a fair degree of accuracy could be acheived with even a badly worn Enfield barrel if the bullet is of sufficient diameter and the load close to the MkVI balistically (heavy soft bullets of 200+gr at around 2,000 fps or slightly less) a fairly fast powder with good initial bumping up qualities would also help to fill out the worn or eroded throat.
|
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
|
| Tweet |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options
I relived the nosecap so that the barrel was not touching.