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britrifles View Drop Down
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    Posted: November 24 2022 at 11:54am
Good grief.  I just paid over $400 for 8 lbs of Varget from Hodgdon, delivered.  That stuff has been unobtainium for 4 years now.  This is about twice the price I paid 4 years ago. But, I’ve not found a better powder for the No. 4, in .303 and 7.62.  Not that there isn’t something just as good, I just haven’t found anything that beats it in my rifle.  Might just “be in my head” if you know what I mean…
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Wow. Crazy.
14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
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Goosic View Drop Down
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VihtaVuori N540 
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Whilst I've never used it Varget has disappeared from our shelves in the UK due to some new regulation or other, one firm are suggesting Ramshot Tac is a good alternative but as long as I can get Vihtavuori N140 I will stick to that with my .303's and 7.62mm No.4. 

On the "heavier" .308 side (Accuracy International 1000 yards etc) I've been using Swiss RS52 but that is currently unavailable so have switched to Viht N540.

Swiss powder is currently used in Radway Green's L42A3 (155gr 7.62mm) round and the primers are RUAG which is probably why the Swiss stuff is difficult to find in the gun shops at the moment.

Getting back to Geoff's original point; haven't all reloading prices gone through the roof in recent months, in the UK regulation after regulation have made the transportation of powders and primers almost impossible to source unless you can visit the supplier.  
Mick
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britrifles View Drop Down
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Points: 8404 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2022 at 4:59am
I think I read that there is no more US manufacturing of NC powder.    Shipping costs have gone way up over the last few years. Shipping regulations have changed too making it more expensive. 

I have used N140 in the .303 and it gives good results, but Varget is more consistent for me anyway.  It’s difficult to assess the difference, you need to shoot a fair bit to get a group size statistical average and  standard deviation.   

Varget is actually made in AU, it is ADI AR 2208 and renamed by Hodgdon as VarGet (Varmint/TarGet). Has anyone else on the forum used Varget (or ADI AR 2208) in .303 or 7.62?  It meters well in my powder measure and no advantage of weighing every charge for 200 yard shooting. 
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Holy cow, that`s crazy:sok2 , who buying groceries this month....
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I tried it in both back when it was "The New darling on the Block"
For me it measured beautifully in the Dillon meters but was universally lacking in power for velocity at the charge weights suggested back then.
I believe they've since elevated the max's by an amount, so maybe give it a better shot with the new load data.
41.3 Gr with a 168 Gr SMK in 7.62mm. 2375 FPS & 10' instrumental.
The old WW 748BR was giving me 2550 with no pressure signs.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles View Drop Down
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I chrono’ed my 40.0 gr Varget match load with 174 SMK at around 2400 fps, approx 20 feet from muzzle.

Max is listed as 42.0 on Hodgdon site, 2509 fps, 43,800 CUP.  The Hodgdon (ADI) velocity data seems pretty close to measured my No. 4 rifles. 
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britrifles View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

41.3 Gr with a 168 Gr SMK in 7.62mm. 2375 FPS & 10' instrumental.

Shamu, was this your own measurements?  That seems low compared to what I chrono’ed in my No. 4 with 40.0 gr, 168 SMK, 2450 fps at 20 feet instrumental.  Although this is with Canadian 7.62 military cases which are a bit heavier than commercial .308 cases. 

 I suspect Varget (ADI AR2208) had fairly large velocity variations early on from lot to lot, and there may have been formulation changes too.  All my velocity measurements made with .303 and 7.62/.308 since around 2015 seem to be in good agreement with Hodgdons (ADI) published data 

The current Hodgdon (ADI) data for .308 Win starts at 41.0 gr at 2514 fps (24 inch barrel). 
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britrifles View Drop Down
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Points: 8404 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2022 at 5:11pm
I’ll add one more thing about Varget.  It is quite temperature stable.  This means that my 200 yard zero has no detectable change within the temperature ranges I shoot in, from the 20’s to the 90’s F. That means no fiddling with the rear sight at matches.  It might have some noticeable difference at 600 yards and beyond, but I use this powder in my No. 4 for CMP 200 yard matches only.  

Case in point, I hadn’t shot my No. 4 since the June D-Day match, and it was pretty hot that day.  Last weekend at the Talladega 600 match, it was about 28 degrees and my first shots went into the X ring at 200.  I shot a 100-6x in prone slow fire, never touched the rear sight.  In fact, I’ve not touched it over the last 5 years of match shooting, I’ve put a drop of locktite on the elevation screw so my hat doesn’t turn it during recoil. 

Compare that to AA 2520 that I use in the AR for across the course Service Rifle matches.  I can see the difference at 200 yards between winter and summer matches.  At 600, I have to try and predict the effect of temp before the first shot.  This gets very important with matches where no sighters are allowed, such as the EIC match.  I would really like to use IMR 8802 but can’t get it.  I could use Varget for the .223 but it’s hard to find too and it does not meter as well as the ball powders.   I’ve still got about 20 lbs of 2520, and I’m not buying any more of it because of the velocity variation with temp. 
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Points: 406 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marco1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2022 at 10:15pm
ADI 2208 is my powder of choice down here in NZ, I use in 303. 6.5x55, and .308 win
good consistent results and a very stable powder.  If only I could get primers I would be happy.
shipping powder and primers has become way to difficult.
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Points: 20510 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2022 at 6:42pm
Yes these were about average from several strings trying to get to like Varget.
The WW748 were in the same cases & the same rifle.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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