History of this .22 trainer by Enfield? |
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Enfield21
Newbie Joined: January 14 2021 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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Posted: January 14 2021 at 4:36am |
he!!o,
Please could i get the history of this Lee enfield .22 trainer? Is it classified as a SMLE No.1 MkII .22 trainer? What is the value on such rifles? The SN: on this is 612. Thankyou
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Enfield-Stuff
Groupie Joined: January 14 2021 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 88 |
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Your rifle has a long history. This is a (very) short recap:
Your rifle started out in 1894 as a "Long-Lee" Enfield. It was converted in 1905 to a "Short-Lee" Enfield, also called a SMLE (Short, Magazine, Lee-Enfield). In 1914 it was converted by A.G. Parker Ltd. in Birmingham (UK) to a .22 trainer, officially a "Rifle, Short, .22-inch, RF (meaning Rim Fire), Pattern 1914 (No.1)." The No.1 designation was used for conversions of previously converted rifles; an original SMLE converted to .22 would have been a "No.2". A good book on .22RF trainers would be "British .22RF Training Rifles" by Lewis & Washburn. Generally available on Amazon for under $10 USD. A good book on the SMLE would be "The British Enfield Rifles: The SMLE (No1) MkI and MkIII" by Stratton, Charles (2002) Paperback; also available on Amazon for around $25 USD. That's the short answer. After that it gets more complicated. |
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Enfield-Stuff
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Enfield21
Newbie Joined: January 14 2021 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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very imformative, thankyou very much.
Got this book article sent too that was interesting.
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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the bottom one is what it looked like at its first conversion to Cond II
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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BTW , WELCOME to the site , hope this helped you out , sorry i forgot to say it before
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devrep
Senior Member Joined: October 28 2020 Location: florida Status: Offline Points: 625 |
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very cool rifle.
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double gun
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Enfield21
Newbie Joined: January 14 2021 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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Thankyou
Very nice rifles. What value can you place on such rifles? In order, what is the rarest and most sought after rifles etc?
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Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 5585 |
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Welcome to the forum from France.
I think you have an exceptional rifle there. Well done! It appears to be in lovely condition and has had a very interesting history. You asked about value; it's a difficult question because it varies depending on your local market. But the .22 trainer's are more expensive than the usual .303 and seeing as this is quite rare I would expect it to be toward the top end of the market. I would expect the Australian market to be good for this rifle. Are you wanting to sell? |
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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Enfield21
Newbie Joined: January 14 2021 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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Thankyou
I was actually wanting to acquire this one. I love how the rear leaf sight had the windage adjustment. I also enjoyed the woodwork on the rifle. Is it walnut? Here it goes between AU$1600-2220 for No.1's, and surprisingly $3000+ for No.2's for some reason. Pretty rare here too now. What is it like in France? Or the UK? |
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Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 5585 |
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The .22's are increasing in price. Doesn't matter which model, although recently here in France I've seen two made up rifles trying to be sold as original for top money! Such as a No8 trainer wearing No1 SMLE type woodwork!
However Last year I bought a very nice 1918 SSA made SMLE that was converted to .22 by Parker Hale. It's a bit of an odd one; it is all matching numbers and original wood with a lot of wear. But the wrist has not been re-stamped as a .22. So think it may have been a private or non military conversion to .22 after WWI. I paid 950 Euros for it in 2019 from a local Gunshop. I'd gone to by ammo and they showed me this rifle. I think it was a very good deal. Your rifle is rarer and more interesting and definitely worth more. I do have one question about the rear sight though! I will have to do a search in my Skennerton book; but most of the .22 conversions have a mark on the sight for 25 yards aiming; stamped on the original sight. I do not see that in your photo; but it could be under the slide. Personally I would probably buy that rifle, even if it was expensive today, because tomorrow it will be more expensive and probably not available! treat yourself! Here's a couple of photos of my 1918. (I also have a Lithgow No2MkIV* and two NO8'). It is so much fun to shoot and accurate as well. Plus my daughter loves shooting it so we get range time together which is great! the rear sight with 25 yard stamp at around the 250 yard .303 line |
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Enfield21
Newbie Joined: January 14 2021 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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You are right, i cannot see the 25yard mark. I wonder if it was replaced at some point.
If it is accurate, i won't be too worried about tbat finer detail, but would be nice. Would like it to have the volley front dial still intact too with the fron band. Your rifles look perfect, definately keepers. 950 was a good price, worthit getting it at that price. Thanks for all the information, will be interested in what your skennerton book says.
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Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 5585 |
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I've had a quick look at Skennerton's today. The volley sights should be missing; they were removed as part of the modification to .22 status. Also; apparently some rifles had just a line for the 25 yard mark and no 25 stamp. But if you check the underside of the sight blade, it should have the serial number on it.
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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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John Hart
Newbie Joined: January 31 2022 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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I have a MLE no.1* converted to. 22. Barrel is .22 replacement for .303 original and rear leaf for volley sight was removed,,apparent at time of conversion. Forewood is in proportion to length of Barrel with this conversion while some have Barrel protruding just slightly ahead of wood.
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