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Questions about recently purchased Lithgow Enfield

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AussieShooter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2021 at 6:06pm
I love deep red colour of the wood on that 1917 and the '20. 

This has been a great discussion.  It has been great to see all the armourer markings being discussed and the different date formats.   I have never seen some of these.  Thanks for sharing your rifle MountainMater98.
"Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges" - Tacitus
The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MountainMater98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2021 at 9:21pm
Thanks for the comment! It seems like the paper tag is just what JJ Co. used essentially to market the gun a bit after they put it together. I've seen other ones online that have the "303 caliber new" box checked on the tag and I believe that is what they were putting on the builds that were un-issued parts with the four digit JJ Co. serial number. I guess they just used the "arsenal refresh" on ones that were built with used parts like this one. I'm hoping it will be a good shooter once I can get everything squared away!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MountainMater98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2021 at 9:26pm
It definitely has been a great discussion AussieShooter! I have gained quite a bit of knowledge from this post. I think it's really great that these beautiful rifles still get discussed and seem to have a large, knowledgeable base of fans! You're welcome for sharing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2021 at 11:19am
Originally posted by MountainMater98 MountainMater98 wrote:

Thanks for the comment! It seems like the paper tag is just what JJ Co. used essentially to market the gun a bit after they put it together. I've seen other ones online that have the "303 caliber new" box checked on the tag and I believe that is what they were putting on the builds that were un-issued parts with the four digit JJ Co. serial number. I guess they just used the "arsenal refresh" on ones that were built with used parts like this one. I'm hoping it will be a good shooter once I can get everything squared away!
You keep referencing John Jovino. Does it have a JJCo&Son stamp on it anywhere?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2021 at 1:00pm
That's a good point!
Was Jovino the ONLY importer of Lithy SMLE's?
Is there any importers mark on it anywhere, not just the infamous "JJ&Co"?
I'd be more worried by they "DP" stamp myself!
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SGonger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2021 at 1:19pm
Howdy y’all.
I can see the (JJCO NY NY) ok in one of the photo’s which has the (Stenciled P) bolt head for validation. 👍

From everything I’ve tried to learn & find out about that (stenciled mark P) bolt head also have 3-4 of of them is;
A sorta of a proof tested good replacement (parts pool) part mark.
Will stand corrected if proofen wrong on that one.

Tidbit;The P inside the the heart as noted earlier was also a personal stamp used by (Lt Fredrick Edward Hart’s) inspector team during his reign as head armourer at the Lithgow factory. 

Cheer’s today.

Anyone seen the Tardis Box anywhere? 🤨
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2021 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

That's a good point!
Was Jovino the ONLY importer of Lithy SMLE's?
Is there any importers mark on it anywhere, not just the infamous "JJ&Co"?
I'd be more worried by they "DP" stamp myself!
 My asking is also a point of contention with me.

John Jovino, no different than Parker Hale, Golden State Arms, and Gibbs/Navy Arms, assembled various Enfield parts together to make a functional rifle, and as such, stamped their own serial numbers and name into them, especially PH who bought the No4 recievers by the bulk and still in the white. Not once have I ever seen or heard of any of those folk, including John Jovino attempting to sell it off as an originally manufactured product. When it comes right down to it, all those rifles are all,"Bitsters." John Jovino has gotten a very bad reputation because people have made the assumption that he has duped the masses. The actuality of it is that the public have duped themselves by not taking the time to research the rifles in question. I myself would be more than accepting of a JJ&Co. rifle...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2021 at 1:58pm
Yeah I see it now too down in the bottom left corner.
Its a Jovino alright!
Good eyes mate.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2021 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

That's a good point!
Was Jovino the ONLY importer of Lithy SMLE's?
Is there any importers mark on it anywhere, not just the infamous "JJ&Co"?
I'd be more worried by they "DP" stamp myself!
 My asking is also a point of contention with me.

John Jovino, no different than Parker Hale, Golden State Arms, and Gibbs/Navy Arms, assembled various Enfield parts together to make a functional rifle, and as such, stamped their own serial numbers and name into them, especially PH who bought the No4 recievers by the bulk and still in the white. Not once have I ever seen or heard of any of those folk, including John Jovino attempting to sell it off as an originally manufactured product. When it comes right down to it, all those rifles are all,"Bitsters." John Jovino has gotten a very bad reputation because people have made the assumption that he has duped the masses. The actuality of it is that the public have duped themselves by not taking the time to research the rifles in question. I myself would be more than accepting of a JJ&Co. rifle...

I'm sorry I have to disagree.
P-H bought new rifles, or barreled actions from the factory for their jobs. Then they restocked (or stocked) them with sporting furniture. Everyone knew it was a Parker Hale built with a Lee Enfield action.

All the other companies you mentions old their guns as sporters, used milsurps or something similar.
It was a very profitable business back in the day & I have no problems with it.
Jovino sold them as brand spanking fresh from the factory Lithgow made originals. Which many of them weren't.
Had the sold them as "Tier 1" (real ex factory builds), "Tier 2", (we finished barreled actions & so on), & "Tier 3", (we flung the parts together ourselves). & priced accordingly I'd agree with you, but they didn't.
Personally I'm still on the lookout for a REAL 100% Lithgow Factory SMLE, but when I see "JJ & Co" I flag it as "for further research", just like I would a Century built FAL, which is a very similar situation.
I've never said they are all bad, just like I've never said Century are all bad either, but the deceptive marketing does raise warning flags to me.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SGonger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2021 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by MountainMater98 MountainMater98 wrote:

It definitely has been a great discussion AussieShooter! I have gained quite a bit of knowledge from this post. I think it's really great that these beautiful rifles still get discussed and seem to have a large, knowledgeable base of fans! You're welcome for sharing!
Howdy MM98;
Welcome to the world of Enfield’s.

The location & description of the (H) not connected to a heavy barrel,a code letter reference would be my term used.

The Location of the (6) would prolly be the new MD applied,in previous reading & learning’s have read about other numbers (2-3 etc) applied in the same manner with the conclusion being a MD reference.

Tidbit;WARNING ALERT!!
Contraire to what may be said about the (Commie Bug etc)
Enfielditis is a very validated & contagious disease!! 
Y’all have been warned. 😬😉
Cheer’s 🍻
Anyone seen the Tardis Box anywhere? 🤨
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MountainMater98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2021 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

That's a good point!
Was Jovino the ONLY importer of Lithy SMLE's?
Is there any importers mark on it anywhere, not just the infamous "JJ&Co"?
I'd be more worried by they "DP" stamp myself!


I totally forgot to take a good picture of the importer mark! The only one on it as far as I can tell is the JJ Co. mark. The DP mark definitely seems the be the main point of concern. I looked over the entire rifle, and the bolt as well extensively a couple nights ago. I was mainly looking to see if there were any places where I may have missed a faded DP on another piece, or where someone had scratched one out, something along those lines. I'm pretty confident that the rest of the rifle besides the bolt did not come from a DP rifle. All of the parkerized finish appears to be matching, and there are no areas on the metal that look like they have been scratched out. Unless the Jovino Company themselves covered the marks before they did the parkerizing, which I would imagine if they did that they would have dealt with the one on the bolt as well. As far as the bolt is concerned, I gave it a meticulous look over as well. Of course my knowledge is pretty limited as someone fairly new to the enfield world, I was just looking to see if anything really stood out to me as having some kind of fault. There are no visible cracks,chips, things of that nature. The locking lugs are getting good, symmetrical contact. And the bolt head screws all the way down, with the over-rotation of course, and sits flush with the bolt body. Also, the cocking piece, bolt head, and i would imagine the firing pin as well are not original to the bolt. I'm definitely not saying something might not be defective with it, but I'm mainly just curious what could be faulty about a bolt body specifically that would have caused it to get DP'd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MountainMater98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2021 at 3:08pm
he!!o SGonger! Thank you for all the information! Very interesting information about Lt. Frederick Edward Hart. I thought it would seem odd for a heavy barrel mark to be inside the receiver so that makes sense. Thank you for weighing in the the "6" marking, that was really the only thing I still had not found much on! And I can believe that about "Enfielditis" hahaha. I've only had this rifle for a couple weeks and I am already addicted to everything Enfield. I am already wanting to buy a 100% matching British Enfield next!
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