Rifle No3 Mk1* W (T) |
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Honkytonk
Senior Member Joined: December 30 2017 Location: Brandon Mb Status: Offline Points: 4770 |
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Beautiful rifle.
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terrylee
Senior Member Joined: December 30 2014 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 741 |
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A wonderful collector's piece. I am most envious! Are the rifle or its owner still around?
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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i wonder as well ,
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Damien
Newbie Joined: January 30 2019 Location: NSW Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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Better an answer ridiculously late than never
But nevertheless it'll be true for ever.
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Poohbah
Groupie Joined: October 01 2016 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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All the P14 T rifles Ive seen with Australian markings have all been marked "2"over D arrow D. I assumed they all were like that. Where did you get the numbers of P14 T that came to Australia from? Be interesting to know.
Poohbah |
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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we may never know - just revisiting the past beauties that were contributed to this site by the favor of some new member that sought it out me thinks ,
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Damien
Newbie Joined: January 30 2019 Location: NSW Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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Poobah, I found the tally for P14T rifles in a between-the-wars Commonwealth Small Arms and Artillery Return brought to my attention by a friend. How curious that Australia had 667 on issue in the late 1920s, considering that it represented a third of the whole official production run, so I made a note. Fortunately I was able to dig it up when I saw the initial post a few weeks ago asking the exact question. No rifle serial numbers listed unfortunately. The only serial numbers for individual weapons in these returns were for artillery, which was my main focus at the time.
All Australian issue P14Ts have the small D with arrow inside on left side of receiver ring as pictured above. These were all imported in the early 1920s when UK was shedding lots of surplus gear to the Dominions. As far as I have seen, only NSW added the 2nd Military District marking 2 over D/I\D with a rack number on the right side sight protector. The rack number has a full stop after it then the rifle serial number as applied by PPCo in 1918. Two other known 2 / D/I\D examples are 47.73855 and 247.191511. The rifles were selected over a wide range of serial numbers I have seen quite a few Australian P14Ts without the 2MD markings, but no markings from other Military Districts (yet) in serial range 66,xxx to 23x,xxx. There are probably a few P14Ts either side of that range as well. cheers, Damien |
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ardroyboy
Newbie Joined: February 27 2022 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Hi Damien. I was reading your post on the NSW alias of the 2nd Military District where the P14 Snipers are marked 2 over D/I\D.
I have recently acquired a new P14 sniper, and it sports the same 2 over D/I\D and I would love to know more about the markings and alias. One mine, the rifles serial number has been struck out and replaced with a new number which has a t prefix. It also has an 89 on it. Are you able to provide any further insights? Thanks heaps. Charlie
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Damien
Newbie Joined: January 30 2019 Location: NSW Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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Charlie,
the D/I\D over 2 over 89 is rifle rack number 89 issued to 2nd Military District (NSW) some time in the early 1920s. I have never seen a No.3(T) rifle with the serial number struck out before. They re-stamped the rifle serial on the sight protector, as the front block obscured the receiver ring serial number, and the barrel number is covered by the top handguard. It would be interesting to see what the barrel and bolt numbers are, as you may think they could be the same as the obliterated number on the rearsight protector. If bolt/barrel numbers are also T 5974, are the numbers in the same font? A possibility is that it has been rebarreled and the receiver has been given the barrel number, or maybe the bolt was lost and replaced with another with 5974 serial number replaced it? It may have been easier to change the number on the receiver than the bolt? The T prefix to the number makes no sense as Winchester numbers were W prefixed, while Remington / ERA serial numbers had no prefix. cheers, Damien
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ardroyboy
Newbie Joined: February 27 2022 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Hi Damian. Sorry for my tardy response time. I can confirm that the serial number is consistent on the barrel, the receiver ring and the bolt handle. It even has the number on the lower hand guard. The barrel number has a W prefix, as it should.
The T5794 number added to the sight protector is inconsistent with the other four and is, I guess, destined to remain a mystery.
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Damien
Newbie Joined: January 30 2019 Location: NSW Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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Ho Charlie, yes, still a mystery. It is difficult to second guess what may have been done by obscure armourers in the past, but the rifle sounds original all the same. cheers, D
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pisco
Senior Member Joined: November 21 2018 Location: australia Status: Offline Points: 206 |
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If you are worried about earring the old girl out consider useing cast
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pisco
Senior Member Joined: November 21 2018 Location: australia Status: Offline Points: 206 |
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ardroyboy
Newbie Joined: February 27 2022 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Thanks Pisco. I've not thought of that. Can you purchase here in Australia, or do I need to hand load?
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ardroyboy
Newbie Joined: February 27 2022 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Thanks for your insights Damian. By the way, can you explain how the rack marking confirms 1920 issue?
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Damien
Newbie Joined: January 30 2019 Location: NSW Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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No worries. Australia received 667 No.3(T)s sometime between 1919 and 1927. I know none were issues to Australia before the end of WW1, and the earliest copy of the Small Arms Return I have seen after that is the 1927 one.
We received a lot of the dregs of the Brit arsenal system that are given early 1920s. Similarlt marked SMLEs from the UK have dates / MD numbers from the early to mid 1920s. cheers, D.
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