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Rifle No3 Mk1* W (T)

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Honkytonk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2019 at 6:45am
Beautiful rifle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote terrylee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2019 at 2:23pm
A wonderful collector's piece.  I am most envious! Are the rifle or its owner still around?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2019 at 3:45pm
i wonder as well , 
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Damien View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Damien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2019 at 9:05pm
Better an answer ridiculously late than never
 But nevertheless it'll be true for ever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Poohbah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2019 at 4:52pm
All the P14 T rifles Ive seen with Australian markings have all been marked "2"over D arrow D. I assumed they all were like that. Where did you get the numbers of P14 T that came to Australia from? Be interesting to know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2019 at 6:38pm
we may never know - just revisiting the past beauties that were contributed to this site by the favor of some new member that sought it out me thinks , 
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Damien View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Damien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2019 at 12:09am
Poobah, I found the tally for P14T  rifles in a between-the-wars Commonwealth Small Arms and Artillery Return brought to my attention by a friend. How curious that Australia had 667 on issue in the late 1920s, considering that it represented a third of the whole official production run, so I made a note.  Fortunately I was able to dig it up when I saw the initial post a few weeks ago asking the exact question.  No rifle serial numbers listed unfortunately.  The only serial numbers for individual weapons in these returns were for artillery, which was my main focus at the time.

All Australian issue P14Ts have the small D with arrow inside on left side of receiver ring as pictured above. These were all imported in the early 1920s when UK was shedding lots of surplus gear to the Dominions.  As far as I have seen, only NSW added the 2nd Military District marking 2 over D/I\D with a rack number on the right side sight protector.  The rack number has a full stop after it then the rifle serial number as applied by PPCo in 1918.  Two other known 2 / D/I\D examples  are 47.73855 and 247.191511. The rifles were selected over a wide range of serial numbers I have seen quite a few Australian P14Ts without the 2MD markings, but no markings from other Military Districts (yet) in serial range 66,xxx to 23x,xxx.  There are probably a few P14Ts either side of that range as well.  

cheers,

Damien
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ardroyboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2022 at 4:18am
Hi Damien.  I was reading your post on the NSW alias of the 2nd Military District where the P14 Snipers are marked 2 over D/I\D.

I have recently acquired a new P14 sniper, and it sports the same 2 over D/I\D and I would love to know more about the markings and alias.  One mine, the rifles serial number has been struck out and replaced with a new number which has a t prefix.  It also has an 89 on it.

Are you able to provide any further insights?

Thanks heaps.

Charlie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Damien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2022 at 1:41am
Charlie, 

the D/I\D over 2 over 89 is rifle rack number 89 issued to 2nd Military District (NSW) some time in the early 1920s. 

 I have never seen a No.3(T) rifle with the serial number struck out before.  They re-stamped the rifle serial on the sight protector, as the front block obscured the receiver ring serial number, and the barrel number is covered by the top handguard.

It would be interesting to see what the barrel and bolt numbers are, as you may think they could be the same as the obliterated number on the rearsight protector.   If bolt/barrel numbers are also T 5974, are the numbers in the same font?

A possibility is that it has been rebarreled and the receiver has been given the barrel number, or maybe the bolt was lost and replaced with another with 5974 serial number replaced it?  It may have been easier to change the number on the receiver than the bolt?

The T prefix to the number makes no sense as Winchester numbers were W prefixed, while Remington / ERA serial numbers had no prefix.

cheers,  Damien
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ardroyboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2022 at 4:01am
Hi Damian.  Sorry for my tardy response time.  I can confirm that the serial number is consistent on the barrel, the receiver ring and the bolt handle.   It even has the number on the lower hand guard.  The barrel number has a W prefix, as it should.  

The T5794 number added to the sight protector is inconsistent with the other four and is, I guess, destined to remain a mystery.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Damien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2022 at 3:40pm
Ho Charlie, yes, still a mystery.  It is difficult to second guess what may have been done by obscure armourers in the past, but the rifle sounds original all the same.  cheers,  D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pisco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2022 at 2:09pm
If you are worried about earring the old girl out consider useing cast
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pisco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2022 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by pisco pisco wrote:

If you are worried about wearing the old girl out consider useing cast
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ardroyboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2022 at 5:33am
Thanks Pisco.  I've not thought of that.  Can you purchase here in Australia, or do I need to hand load?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ardroyboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2022 at 5:34am
Thanks for your insights Damian.  By the way, can you explain how the rack marking confirms 1920 issue?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Damien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2022 at 4:05pm
No worries.  Australia received 667 No.3(T)s sometime between 1919 and 1927.  I know none were issues to Australia before the end of WW1, and the earliest copy of the Small Arms Return I have seen after that is the 1927 one.  

We received a lot of the dregs of the Brit arsenal system that are given early 1920s.  Similarlt marked SMLEs from the UK have dates / MD numbers from the early to mid 1920s.  cheers,  D.
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