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Help! Trouble loading my No4 MK1

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MaxP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MaxP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 5:52am
  There were a lot of different manufacturers of chargers. Look at the one in SonnyB's pic, there are two little "nibs" on the sides. These are what go into the grooves inside the bridge and hold the charger in there and at the right height. (whichever one is at the bottom that is, two so it can be used either end down) The intent with the chargers was you leave it in and close the bolt, flicking the charger out.
If you look at the ones in my pics (apologies for the blurred shots) they have much larger teardrop shaped nibs. These ones hold the charger much better in the grooves. I don't know why the difference- perhaps a manufacturing allowance to speed production. I only use blued chargers with the bigger nibs. I have loosened them to be just a nice fit and slightly bend in the free side at each end to ensure the rounds don't fall out. They have also been draw filed along the edges to round them and stop them digging into the brass.

This pic was to show four different Marks of charger, but shows the different nibs too.
Shamu, the rifle in the pics is a No6 Mk1/1. Maxwell Smart, parts of the receiver mounted rear sights were made by Savage.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 6:19am
Thanks, Max.
Get the chargers with the teardrop nibs if you can, Sonny, they are better. Unfortunately my wayward Savage didn't take them worth a darn either! It may have been something the South Africans did to, or with them, a friend of mine had a Savage with S/A acceptance stamps & it wouldnt take them either!
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 1:27pm
"My guess is that it is a No 6 rifle - the "jungle carbine" version of the No1 Mk111*.  Some of these had a sight very much like that on a No 4."

i dont think that the case - but ive neen wrong before so ill expect to be proven wrong again , i think a mkV perhaps , there were very few [hundreds] of no6s made 

as to the clip/stripper issue - i can only hope the single malt is old and the latter is young 
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MaxP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MaxP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 3:40pm
  Its a No6, A square. Here's a closer pic of the rear sight. You can make out the squared "S" Savage mark on the slider.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote muffett.2008 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 6:12pm
You've just gotta get another rifle Brad, that one will be worn out just showing it off.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MaxP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by muffett.2008 muffett.2008 wrote:

You've just gotta get another rifle Brad, that one will be worn out just showing it off.Wink


hahaha...., thats why I only post pics of bits!

Ok, so to help get back on topic, here's a pic of my No4.. a 1943 Longbranch. I can't say if it loads ok or not, I've only had it four and a half years and haven't fired it...



Hey, SonnyB... did you have a go at loading your rifle with your thumb in both positions? When you do, let us know what you find, please.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2013 at 10:32pm
Nice stand (machine rest) oohh looky I'm speaking Brimerican.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2013 at 1:34am
OK , so your mkVI has a no4 savage rear sight ? or am i just completely confused by this thread ? i thought all no6 rifles produced in austrailia would have lithgow bits 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2013 at 1:47am
Is that Savage/Lithgow a hybrid, or is it original equipment?
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MaxP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2013 at 5:54am
 The 97 No6 Mk1/1 rifles (the "/1" denotes receiver mounted rear sight) were fitted with sight parts made by Savage as apparent by the mark on them. Whether they were obtained specially for the rifles or were already at Lithgow is still speculation. There were a quantity of No4 rifles (and most likely associated spare parts) destined for the Dutch East Indies mid war that were either diverted here or brought here by the evacuating Dutch troops at the time. I read about that a long time ago, I'll try to find the reference, someone here might know... I have heard of a quantity that were issued for airfield defence here as well, which may have been the same rifles.

The No6 is all original.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2013 at 3:37am
interesting , id not imagined the use of someone elses bits on the no6 but it makes sense as lithgow was not producing no4s and that backsight would have been in the supply chain - thus an obvious choice for the experimental shortened and lightened rifle , these have always interested me but ive not spent a lot of time on the minutia as id never expect to secure one 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 5thBatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2013 at 4:24am
Originally posted by MaxP MaxP wrote:

One of the greatest "Enfield untruths" is the story about the way the charger is loaded with rounds causing the magazine to load with every second round having the rim behind the one underneath... commonly called the rim over jam. The bolt picks up the top round and the rim of the top round brings the second round out too.

The only way to load a charger is as has been so well described above, one down, one up. Any problems with feeding is caused by the operator when charging the magazine.

By having the thumb against the charger, the weight is at the rear of the case and they will go in with the upper rim in front of the rim underneath all the way up.

If your thumb is a little toward the front of the case, then the cases have a tendency to come together at the shoulder and the rim on top is lifted and the taper causes it to move rearward behind the rim underneath.
If you care to try it both ways you will find it's very easy to make the rounds load wrong, and very easy to ensure they load correctly.

I'll size a couple of pics to Muffet's specs and show what I mean Wink

first up, the right way




and next, thumb just a little forward of the charger and see where the weight takes the cases...










 
MaxP, try using your thumb & not your big toe Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MaxP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2013 at 10:13pm
 5th, that is my thumb... my family hasn't had an opposed big toe since we came out of the trees and walked upright a few generations ago .

A square 10, the name, "Shortened and Lightened" belonged to the 100 rifles made before the No6. These were also SMLE's but where cut down to a 20" barrel and had the foreend and handguard modified with the nosecap refitted. The rear sight they had was an aperture set up on top of the charger bridge, so not the same as any of the No6 production.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kar98k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2013 at 4:21am
Originally posted by Sarge Sarge wrote:

Ayup SonnB...
 
When correctly filled, the .303: 5-round stripper clip should look like those in the illustrations below. What must be remembered, is that the base of the 1st, middle, and last rounds must be flat against the inner base of the stripper clip (referred to as - down), with the base of the 2nd and 4th rounds flat against the front of the base of the two rounds adjacent to them (referred to as - up). Also, each round in the stripper clip should be tight up against its neighbour.
 
 
 
 
You'll still experiance miss-feeds, but by making certain that each round is correctly seated in the clip... you'll minimise stoppages in this area.
 
New clips will always cause a certain amount of problems, especially modern made examples. However, by carrying out the procedure already described to widen the pathway... you'll minimise stoppages in that area also.
 
What your aiming to achieve, is a correctly filled magazine... as illustrated below.
 
 
A common problem when feeding into the magazine from the clip, is the position of the thumb upon the top round. Try not to have the thumb to far forward = near the neck of the round, as this will only cause the round to dig itself into the clip. Place the thumb approx 1/4 inch above the clip = maximum preasure of extraction upon the rounds, and minimum preasure upon the base of the rounds against the floor of the clip.


from my personal experience, i had too many loading and jamming malfunctions with the technically correct way of loading an Enfield charger.

i load them like this:



no problems for me. i'm not trying to dissuade anyone from using the proper technique, simply showing what works for me.
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MaxP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MaxP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2013 at 6:36pm
 That works as a fall back if you cannot get your technique right... unless you inadvertently stick your loaded charger on the wrong way. That will ensure jams with every round.

I suggest everyone who has a problem feeding chargers into your Lee Enfields practice it for a while rather than waiting until you are competing in a ,mad minute. You don't have to fire the rounds, take the magazine off and unload them and try again. Use the methods shown above and prove both how to cause a jam and how to prevent one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 5thBatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2013 at 7:26pm
I tried some experimenting a while back & found that if you have your technique right it does not really matter how you load your charger, even the way Kar98K has shown will work if you end up feeding it the wrong way up.
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