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Help with identification

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Bear43 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2020 at 7:48am
The CR. ER and G prefix Mk I*** rifles went to Ireland. These rifles were given new serial numbers to get them off the British books and track them to Ireland. The ER prefix rifles retained the Mk I*** parts, the G rifles were wire-wrapped for grenade launching and the CR prefix rifles were updated to some MK III parts such as the rear handguard, rear sight protector and rear sight leaf. So, gunguy, yours is a great example of a CR prefix rifle as it would have left the Brits and headed to Ireland.

Value varies a bit. In general the Mk I***'s bring a bit of a premium. The ER prefix rifles and any retaining their original Mk I*** parts will bring a higher price than the CR prefix rifles. That is simply due to the CR prefix rifles looking more like a Mk III. Still, these do go for between $600-$800 depending on location.
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Whitjr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whitjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2020 at 9:45am
well, you can do some research and a good place to start is in England...


Another site with older rifles like yours:

Once you have done that research, then listening to the more experienced collectors here is a tremendous assist.  I am not one of the fellas here with a gun safe full of Enfields...

Mo’betta pictures of your rifle would help others on this site to estimate it’s value.  However, please don’t think that this site is a valuation service... gotta do the “due diligence” for yourself, like I and many others did...

How about the numbers. Matching?  Bore condition? It looks to be a nice rifle...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2020 at 11:36am
A pair of these was recently sold out of a Canadian collection. Both complete and looked fairly original in decent condition. Price tag was $3000 for the pair and they didn't last long on the web site before they were sold.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whitjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2020 at 2:13am
 https://www.enfieldguns.com/bsa-mk1-1907

I thought you might be interested in this....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gunguy12345 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2020 at 5:20am
I didn't expect that kind of value for this one. I already have two other Enfields, one in 303 the other in 308. I'm not sure what I'll do with this one. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2020 at 5:49am
Clean it up a bit and then take it out and shoot it while all the common peasants look on in wonderment and amazement...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2020 at 7:48am
Very nice rifle. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whitjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2020 at 10:24am
kinda thrilling to see that sort of value on our No1***, yes? 

Yours is closer to 100% correct than mine, however even so, I didn’t realize that scarcity and low production legnth of time.  

I guess that some on this forum had educated me as to it’s relative rare-ness, and seeing the British site with the advertisement really cemented it.

Goosic- love the “wonderment and amazement”. Pretty funny!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2020 at 12:57am


You'd think that collectors and dealers of these rifles would go to the trouble to identify them correctly.

There is no such rifle as a No1 Mk1.

It is simply a Mk1 !

It even tells them on the Butt-Socket


"B.S.A Number 1 Mk1*** ShT LE .303 Date 1907, Long Distance Volley Sights, Full windage. very good barrel (.303), new walnut wood, Ten round magazine. magazine cut off, floating charger brigde.
             This is the rarest of SMLE's only in production for 4 years, this service rifle has full up-grade to MKl*** Chambered in .303 it has a detachable, ten shot box magazine.
             The magazine is correctly marked with a “2″ on the lifter and a “3″ on the rear of the box. Enfield bolt system with round headed cocking piece and sliding charger guide attached to the bolt head. This model of SMLE has half the charging guide as part of the Left hand side action wall while the other half slides on the bolt head.
     The Right hand side of the wrist socket is marked as follows “Royal Cypher / E.R. / B.S.A.& Co / 1907/ S.HT LE / I*** "


Nomenclature is important.
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Bear43 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2020 at 2:46am
That is one that gets me, too. Everyone wants to lump the Mk I's under the "No 1" designation because they resemble the No 1 Mk III but don't realize that the Mk I's were never included in the name change in the '20's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote terrylee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2020 at 3:43am
Originally posted by Bear43 Bear43 wrote:

That is one that gets me, too. Everyone wants to lump the Mk I's under the "No 1" designation because they resemble the No 1 Mk III but don't realize that the Mk I's were never included in the name change in the '20's.


Same with the SMLE Mk V.  However, these mistakes do help us distinguish between the men and the boys!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whitjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2020 at 4:56am
so, the No 1*** is really a Mark 1***.

I suppose there is a designation somewhere in the literature that delineates that.  On my butt socket there is neither a “Mk” or a “No”, simply a 1***.  My thoughts were that since the rifle preceded the No 1, Mark III, and it was simply a No 1, and the three “***” were modification marks that eventually evolved into the “III”.  Seems to me, to be an easily made assessment about the weapon’s evolution.

I guess that purchasing the Skennerton Enfield Rifle volume would assist in these close distinctions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2020 at 8:14am
Sht.LE Mk.I***
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2020 at 3:09pm
cant hold back - this is a tony moment if there ever was one , but alas - i shall bite my tongue , 

for what its worth - the NO system got applied in the 20s long after these were made so .......

yes its a mkI  with tripple star improvements over the years , says so on the wrist , 
some of the improvements brought it closer to what was current then a mkIII , i see it has mkIII rear handguard sight and sight protector  [unless the adjustable was replaced - not real sure from the photo] it is a fine example of how these changes to keep things 'current' occurred - gradually , 

the whole plan was to keep as much of what was still usable in operation by bringing it 'current' as they were able 

i cant see the bayonet boss to determine if it was upgraded to mkIII - ill take the word of those that can - the original would have looked like this -




a mkIII would look more like this -


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Whitjr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whitjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2020 at 5:01am
First, many thanks to you guys for your distinctions about the Mark 1 rifles!

I have spent an entertaining evening learning about the history of my 1909.  Have spent time largely online, since I do not own the Skinnerton book, and no local library has a copy for me to borrow.  The articles on Encylopedia Brittanica, as well as on Wikipedia, and the milsurp data site have been very informative.  

It’s always been a habit of mine (some that know me would say a fault) to attempt to understand fully a topic I am interested in.  For example, most everyone knows that our biology has two lungs in the chest.  However this is too too simple, each lung having lobes (two on the left, and three on the right, as well as fully identifiable in anatomical literature with names segments within the lobes.  My example here is only that to show that I want to understand and am motivated to do so....

Thus my many questions about the identification on my 1909, and further how this is tied into the whole evolution of the SMLe rifles from the years into the standardized No 1, Mark III.  I’m finding out that certain years were given to many changes, influenced by the compound essence of time and testing.  

I saw in several articles that the designatIon of Mark 1 was there, as opposed to the No 1 designation that I had previously thought.  I can’t seem to find much about the evolution in the 1920’s, however my resources have been somewhat limited.  

Anyway, thanks to all of you for the time spent on assisting with identification!  I’m not debating, just finding  out more.  
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