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Help with identification

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oldrag71 View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 25 2020 at 6:49am
he!!o all,
Let me start by saying that I know absolutely nothing about Enfields and that is why I ended up buying this gun at the yard sales in Tennessee. The gun was going to be a gift for my son (he has always wanted to own an Enfield, but couldn't afford one), but after doing what limited research I could, I'm not sure it's even worth giving to him. The gun appears to have been made from MANY different parts and even had some number ground off. Can someone tell me what I have here? From what I read, the front sight protectors should be rounded, not squared. Is this a .303 or a .308? I see the gun was made in India at R.F.I., but I read that the markings are Israeli?? I read that anything after 1950 (when India won it's independence?) was NATO? Yes, there is a lot of strange info on the web.

Please let me know what I have. Let me know if there is something missing or why the odd coloration on the short top stock in the pictures. Let me know what the marking on the butt means and if the metal star-y thing-y is correct on the butt. Is this gun worthy of giving as a gift?

Thanks!
oldrag
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2020 at 7:55pm
everything looks like an indian refurb to me , but if its been to pakistan at any point it might explain the oddities 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2020 at 2:37pm
To me this looks like someone put it together from parts. The receiver is marked No 1 Mk 3*, so originally it would be .303 caliber. Take the rifle apart and check the barrel markings though. No, it's not rare to find them made that late and even later in India. Even though they made the 7.62x51 NATO caliber Enfield 2A and 2A1's they still continued making the .303 caliber No 1 Mk 3's. The latest date I have seen a No 1 Mk 3* from India was dated 1987 and I saw that with my own eyes.

You will also want to make sure the bolt is fitted properly. The serial number doesn't match the receiver and if it was put together by someone I doubt they bothered to check the bolt fitment to the receiver. Many think it's just "plug and play" and it isn't, there is a bit of proper fitment required. That's why the bolts were numbered to match the receiver in service.

Next, disassembly will allow you to check the fitment of the fore-end. That looks like a pretty fresh fore-end and you have no idea if it was properly fitted or not. So it's a good idea to check what it all looks like underneath.

Finally, that nosecap is not fitted properly and is unnumbered, which it would have been numbered after fitment in service. I also see that one screw is far from being the right one for it. All this leads me to think someone was trying to build up either a rifle that had been cut down into a sporter or was otherwise missing bits and pieces. It doesn't mean it's bad necessarily, just that it needs to be finely inspected and looked over to ensure everything is fitted and functioning properly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2020 at 5:33pm
that was the bit and the 'star washer' that led me to my pakistan connection , almost looks kyber pass gunsmithing to me 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2020 at 7:09am
I'd definitely get that nosecap checked out. The front sight is offset more than normal too.
Measure the bore length with a cleaning rod, that will tell you if the woods too long or the barrel is too short.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldrag71 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2020 at 1:33pm
Thanks for all of the help and information.
oldrag
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote riflemaker56 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2020 at 8:20am
It looks like the firing pin is not screwed in all the way into the cocking knob. If the pin protrudes too far on the bolt face you could get primers being punctured and bad back-gas leakage. Always best to get a quailified gunsmith check it out before firing. 
The light you see at the end of the tunnel might be muzzle flash.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote riflemaker56 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2020 at 8:23am
That brass tack holding the clock escapement wheel on the buttstock is a nice personal touch probably by a previous owner.
The light you see at the end of the tunnel might be muzzle flash.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2020 at 10:49am
One of the photos shows a fairly large gap between the back of the bolt body and front surface of the cocking piece.  Also looks like the locking screw is not tight.  The striker should be turned one or two more full turns.   

Note that striker protrusion from the bolt head is not set by how far the cocking piece is screwed onto the striker, unless you turn it in too far and it contacts the back of the bolt (which you DON’T want).  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2020 at 1:15pm
I was always taught that the "Stop Collar" on the striker was supposed to contact the rear face of the bolt head! Are we confusing terminology or something here? That would mean the bolt head length, firing pin length past the stop collar & the stop collar itself set the Firing pin protrusion?
Or are we at cross purposes here & you're thinking of the cocking piece & the rear of the bolt body?
Having said that the rear of the striker does look too far screwed in though! something is wonky there.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2020 at 1:37pm
I think both of you are saying the same thing here. (Shamu and Britrifles).
Firing pin protrusion is set by the Stop Collar on the back of the bolt head. When the collar is in the fired position, there should be a gap between the rear of the bolt body and the front of the cocking piece. I believe it's normally between 0.015" to 0.040".
If the cocking piece has the firing pin screwed in too far; it can contact the rear of the bolt and hold the Stop Collar off the rear of the bolt; which is bad. The cocking piece will take the firing spring load on the threads instead of the Stop Collar taking the load.
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2020 at 1:44pm
Correct.  If you look at the photos posted, you will see the end of the striker sits below the back surface of the cocking piece.  And a substantial gap between the back of the bolt and front of the cocking piece.  Yes, there must be a gap, but this is more than necessary.  




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