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History on the Dutch Lee Enfield Rifles

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2021 at 8:12pm
please give him anything you can , his book will be of immense value to collectors down the road as not much has been published on the malby rifles at this point and he has been working very hard to get a definitive collection of information put together , he has put a lot into it we need the data on record to perpetuate the collecting community into the future , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhonelver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2021 at 7:44am
Here is some more information on Dutch Lee Enfield.


The Dutch army also needed some inspection tools for inspecting the Lee Enfield rifles.
I do not know if these tools were made locally, but they are inscribed in Dutch and still have the dutch calibration sight on them.

I own 2 sets (different) all with inspection toosl for the Lee Enfield rifles.
there is only a slight catch. some tools were specially made for the Bren gun, and some for the Lee Enfield.






Tools like the protrusion gauge are different. (from top to Bottom: 1 Bren, 2 LM (light machinegun), 3 rifle No.1 and rifle no.4)

all are slightly different.



Also pressent in these inspection chests are.
- Headspace gauges
- chamber mirror
- barrel/bore gauges from .301 to .310

a no.4 rifle was rejected when a gauge of .306+ fitted in the barrel.

it is really nice to have these tools when buying any Lee enfield rifle.

Also some specially Dutch made tools are present in my collection.
Below are chamber gauges. (3 of them still in packaging).

i haven't checked them out yet. bought them yesterday.




The Dutch also used rifle grenades for the Lee Enfield No.4 Mk.I.
Here are the 1953 instruction manual for the Lee Enfield No.4 Mk.I

From left to right; shooting training, firearms knowledge, and rifle grenade ATB4 and ATB5.



The Dutch used their own production of the ENERGA anti tank rifle grenade.
The Dutch used this type of rifle grenade on their Lee Enfield rifles, M1 Garand rifles and later on the FN FAL.

I could not find a picture of this on the Lee Enfield but here is one with a M1 Garand.


The Dutch Produced 3 types of Energa rifle grenades.
ATB nr4 (live grenade)
ATB nr5 (training grenade inert)
ATB nr28 (training grenade with white chalk to mark where they hit)

I don't have any Dutch Energa rifle grenades in my collection yet.

Below is the attachment for the Lee Enfield to fire the rifle grenades. (this is from my collection).


And here is it on my LB No.4 Mk.I* 1950



I hope you all likes this so far.

I set a goal for myself to collect as much information on Dutch used Lee Enfields, their markings, Dutch made spare parts and so on.
When i do have enough information i will try to write a book or something about it.

will keep you guys updated on the progress.









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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2021 at 11:03am
Necessity is the Mother of Invention:
I do not own any original military gauge sets for the Lee-Enfield rifles. Bore gauges, pin protrusion gauges, and headspacing gauges such as your collection is not obtainable here in the states unless you sink a small fortune into the purchase after finding a set. I have a mini milling machine as well as a mini lathe and as such, have resorted to making my own gauges based on my own images of what they should look like without knowing what they actually look like. Amazingly, what I have made, look exactly like the ones in your photos. 
Nice looking kit by the way...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2021 at 11:12am
That F/P protrusion gauge marked L M is for a Lee Metford & is different again.
Lee Efnielfield F/P protrusion was 0.040"~0.050"
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhonelver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2021 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

That F/P protrusion gauge marked L M is for a Lee Metford & is different again.
Lee Efnielfield F/P protrusion was 0.040"~0.050"

The Dutch never used the Lee Methford. but had other rifle like machine guns and even Dutch rifle converted to 303.

the 0.045 - 0.040 is Bren. it states on the F/P protrusion gauge.
(Mitr. Bren. Kal .303 inch) that is machinegun Bren caliber 303

The lowest is for Lee Enfield rifles No.4 and No.1
that one is in mm and not in inch.
1.27mm is 0.050 inch
1.02mm is 0.040 inch

so is a bit different.

But i dont know everything.

the LM might be for Lee Metford. can you check for me what the protrusion would be?
it says
1.14mm is 0.045 inch
1.02mm is 0.040 inch

So they are all different.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhonelver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2021 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

Necessity is the Mother of Invention:
I do not own any original military gauge sets for the Lee-Enfield rifles. Bore gauges, pin protrusion gauges, and headspacing gauges such as your collection is not obtainable here in the states unless you sink a small fortune into the purchase after finding a set. I have a mini milling machine as well as a mini lathe and as such, have resorted to making my own gauges based on my own images of what they should look like without knowing what they actually look like. Amazingly, what I have made, look exactly like the ones in your photos. 
Nice looking kit by the way...


I had way more gauges.

Even test bolts for M1 garand.
had a full Dutch kit.
with the following sets of gauges.

Bren (as seen)
Lee Enfield  (as seen)
M1 Garand
FN FAL
Breda machinegun
30m1 carbine.

I only kept the first two. the others i sold again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2021 at 1:55pm
OK, its just the different measurement systems then. (Inch & metric.)
I have no idea why it would be marked "L M" though?
The bottom gauge (1.27~1.02) might translate to "year of ## Rifle No 1 & 4" perhaps? but then whats the middle one for?

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2021 at 9:58am
I was thinking about the spare parts you showed us with the AI stamp for the Dutch Armoury that made them; and I was thinking that one day we may see some "numpty" trying sell sell them on E-bay as made by "Accuracy International"! 
That would be hilarious LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote terrylee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2021 at 11:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2021 at 6:55pm
wow , what a great bunch of info that does not show up in a lot of the reference material we collectors all rely on , hope one day it gets included in a future installment 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhonelver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2021 at 8:12am
I just came home from the Dutch National Military Museum.

And i have seen some great things.
I can't share the document and drawings with you guys yet.

What i discovered is a letter from the Dutch military to a Cans factory.
The dutch military had asked multiple Dutch factory from all trades to manufacture equipment for them.
in this letter the Dutch military specify the specific metals and part the cans factory need to manufacture Lee Enfield No.4 magazines. it even included the drawings for every little part they need in the magazine.

It evens says in the bottom that it is an altered magazine that would fit both No.1 Mk.III and No.4 rifles. and also specifies an area where the manufacturer could place their mark/stamp.

This gives even more dept and history to Dutch manufactured Lee Enfield parts.

i will need to return a couple more times to the museum.

next time i will be looking at some technical drawings of all the Lee Enfield tools. The Dutch military had companies manufacture tools for inspection and for the armourers. the museum has the drawings of these tools.

i cannot tell you guys how happy i am finding these documents in the museum.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2021 at 12:11pm
You are lucky to have access to the museums archives. Great that you can share the information with us. 
So did they make the magazines? or was it just a proposal that did not get completed?
This is interesting info!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhonelver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2021 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

You are lucky to have access to the museums archives. Great that you can share the information with us. 
So did they make the magazines? or was it just a proposal that did not get completed?
This is interesting info!

I have no idea yet, i still need to do more research. will keep you guys updated. but the museum is only open in the workdays, and i would need to take a day of work to go there. so it will take a while before i can go there again.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grizzly  ‘76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2021 at 5:33pm
he!!o All, brand new to the forum . 
I just purchased an Enfield No.4 MK1 . I gave it a thorough cleaning and photographed most of the stamps / proof marks . I discovered this site the other day when trying to figure out info on this rifle . I became a member after reading about Bear 43 writing a book on Maltby Rifles . So far I have found out that I have a M. 1944 numbers matching barrel, bolt, & receiver, made at ROF  Maltby (except the magazine has no serial #). I would like to share pictures if allowed . It has import marks ENGLAND on the left wrist , and a very small CE 1967 stamped onto the fore stock metal,  just behind the front barrel band on the bottom side . I have had the action out of all three front wood stocks . I did not remove the butt stock. I have a few questions about this rifle . It wears serial number BP 148xx. Forgive me if I’m posting on the wrong location , or resurrecting a zombie . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhonelver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2021 at 9:14am
Originally posted by Grizzly  ‘76 Grizzly ‘76 wrote:

he!!o All, brand new to the forum . 
I just purchased an Enfield No.4 MK1 . I gave it a thorough cleaning and photographed most of the stamps / proof marks . I discovered this site the other day when trying to figure out info on this rifle . I became a member after reading about Bear 43 writing a book on Maltby Rifles . So far I have found out that I have a M. 1944 numbers matching barrel, bolt, & receiver, made at ROF  Maltby (except the magazine has no serial #). I would like to share pictures if allowed . It has import marks ENGLAND on the left wrist , and a very small CE 1967 stamped onto the fore stock metal,  just behind the front barrel band on the bottom side . I have had the action out of all three front wood stocks . I did not remove the butt stock. I have a few questions about this rifle . It wears serial number BP 148xx. Forgive me if I’m posting on the wrong location , or resurrecting a zombie . 

he!!o Grizzly,

welcome to the forum,
you could start a new topic on your rifle and ask those questions with some pictures to help us see the rifle. we all would love to help you where we can.

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