Enfield-Rifles.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Off Topic > OT Forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - How Equipment Accuracy Affects the Bottom Line
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

How Equipment Accuracy Affects the Bottom Line

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 13483
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2021 at 1:29pm
The "long front end"?
From the "U" bend in the hook to the tip of the rounded opposite end 52" exactly
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
lyman1903 View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: August 12 2018
Location: Beach VA,
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lyman1903 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 7:33am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

The Turner Saddlery 1903 Biothane sling works brilliant.  I’ve got 4 of them and have used them for 5 or 6 years now. You can’t break them.    The long version needed for the No. 4 and M1.  Short version OK for AR.  

I bought one for my AR and used it a few matches, 

I could not get comfortable (yes, comfort is relative)  with it and switched back to my tried and true leather version , 


Back to Top
Zed View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: May 01 2012
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 4180
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 11:28am
Thanks Shamu. The Turner slings I have are 52" for the leather and I think 53or 54" for the Biothane. I'll have to check.
The British made leather version is supposed to be the spec for the No4T rifle; but it's only 47".
I'm only 5'9" tall and fairly skinny; but on the No4 rifles only the Biothane is reasonably comfortable.
The Turner leather sling is very thick, which does not help and is on the last hole on the No4 rifles; it needs at least 2 or 3 more holes.
As I mentioned previously; both SMLE and No8 are longer between the sling loops. Every extra inch on the rifle is 2" on the sling.


It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 2969
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 11:41am
Zed, you need the 54/56 inch sling.   The hook is set to the fourth or fifth hole on mine for the No. 4.   It will vary somewhat, particularly in your body angle relative to the line of fire. 
Back to Top
Zed View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: May 01 2012
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 4180
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 12:11pm
Thanks. I'm currently toying with the idea of getting one made by a saddlery here. I can make the hooks etc if they can make the length of sling from leather.
I'll let you know if I get it done.
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 13483
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 12:56pm
The guy selling them here mentioned that there are several "authentic" lengths & the longest he makes for anything is 54"
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member

Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Offline
Points: 11710
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 7:13pm
im reading this and thinking how much trouble i have getting into a comfortable position these days and wondering if ill ever be able to even try this , i cant kneel for any length of time at all , i can sit if in a chair or such , if i go prone im needing time and effort to get back up , 

maybe ill just stick with my cowboy action i can stay standing all the time , no running & gunning , no reloads to speak of save that shotgun i fumble with , and we do our sitting at the campfire with a drink and ceegar and talk smart of how quick we were - once , 

ooops - this is the OT forum , i thought i was on the other thread you have to excuse my lack of attention on this one , i would like to know more of your AR , is this a st cloud DPMS or a becker ? or did you get one of the newer REM0DPMS from down south ? 
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 2969
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2021 at 4:17am
A Square, the lower is a Sr Cloud DPMS.  I bought it new in 2013 as a Tactical Precision Rifle (A15 TPR).  It came with a moderate heavy 20 inch barrel.  

Last year, I modified it for CMP/NRA Service Rifle Match shooting.  I bought a complete AR-15 Service Rifle Upper from White Oak Armament that had a Wilson 20 inch barrel.  I also replaced the butt stock with a Magpul UBR stock that is adjustable in length which is very useful for the standing stage to be able to get proper eye relief on the scope.

I needed the lowest scope mount I could find to get proper eye position in the prone position, it’s a Geissele cantilever mount.  The Hi-Lux scope is designed for  “Across the course” Service Rifle Shooting, maximum power of 4X per the CMP Rules.  This rule change has enabled many shooters to stay competitive.  

After only 1500 rounds thru the Wilson barrel in the new upper, accuracy fell off dramatically.  I replaced the barrel with a Bartlein match barrel which cost about twice that of the Wilson.  The Bartlein should be good for 4,500 rounds. 

This rifle is a 1 MOA shooter with my handloads.  Easily shoots 100-10x in the prone position on the NRA SR Target at 200 yards, so it’s plenty accurate for Service Rifle shooting (subject of this thread).  

I shoot Sierra 69 grain Matchkings on the 200 and 300 yard lines which are loaded to magazine length (2.25 inch OAL) and 80 grain Sierra Matchkings for the 600 yard line, OAL of 2.45 inches which are fed single shot.  



Back to Top
lyman1903 View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: August 12 2018
Location: Beach VA,
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lyman1903 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2021 at 1:25pm
interesting that your Wilson only lasted 1500 rounds,  
did you reach out to WO and let them know?

I have a friend that is a Distinguised HM, and swears by Bartlein, 


Back to Top
A square 10 View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member

Donating Member

Joined: December 12 2006
Location: MN , USA
Status: Offline
Points: 11710
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2021 at 3:33pm
if its st cloud made it has all the original DPMS parts that were some of the best available , after they moved they got parts from other places , you should have a great rifle with the changes you made but i too was surprised at the short longevity of the wilson bbl , i would think it should have lasted much longer , but then i get that its all about accuracy here , i like the magpul stock as well , did you have to leave it bone stock or could you put JP trigger/hammer springs into it ? 

i have a st cloud made rifle with an ACOP 4x and carbine with magpul stock , as well as an earlier becker made with dedicated 22cal upper rifle , only difference is the year it was made and the facility they were operating from , even the people would have been pretty much the same for all of the essentials , one day i will post whenn i can get photos taken , 
Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 2969
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2021 at 6:14pm
That Bartlein barrel is excellent.   I know that if it doesn’t hit an X, it’s because of me.  I just ordered another one to have it ready when this one is shot out.  I got it from Compass Lake.  

I shot a 3x600 match today (three strings of 20 shots each at 600 yards) with the AR.  The first string was a dang fire drill.  It was pretty windy, storms all around the area.  My first sighter was a 5 at 3:00. I mistakenly dialed in 3 mins of right windage and should have put in 3 minutes left windage.  I corrected that, but none of the next 4 shots registered on the electronic target.  The Range Officer moved me over to a spare firing point.  By the time I got set up again, 10 minutes had passed into the 20 minute time limit.  I did not want to hold up the entire match with thunder storms approaching, so I shot my 2 sighters and 20 record shots as fast as I could (in single shot mode).  It was terrible, shots out in the 8 ring.  

Second 20 round string was better, a 98 and 95.  

I finished middle of the pack with a total of 569-15x.  Hoping for a better result tomorrow in the 80 round Service Rifle Match. 

Friday will be the M1 and No. 4.  


Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 2969
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2021 at 6:23pm
A Square, that DPMS is a nice rifle.  The trigger was near perfect, but it’s just on the edge of failing the trigger pull minimum weight.  I’m going to replace it with a Geissele adjustable trigger.  

Lyman, I probably should let WOA know about the barrel.  But it might be in part my own fault.  I think I loaded a bit too hot.  Published load data is just all over the place.  I backed down on my loads and I’ll see how long this Bartlein lasts.  The Wilson barrel is button rifled and is supposed to be good for 2500 rounds.  I changed it out at 1800 rounds, I was getting 4 MOA groups in prone, it had been shooting 2 MOA in prone up to about 1500 rounds.  
Back to Top
lyman1903 View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: August 12 2018
Location: Beach VA,
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lyman1903 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2021 at 6:34am
Compass Lake does great work,   I have one of his Krieger SR uppers,  
bought it when I was going to shoot with the State Team, but then had to change occupations and that idea got put on the back burner,   

still have it in the back of the safe with maybe 300 rounds thru it, Cry

rarely get to shoot, so I just use  my Short Range gun, (A2 upper) or a Bushmaster I picked up a few years ago from a guy I know, it was his Wife's gun,  she stopped shooting as well,  so it is very low mileage, 
I did swap out the upper to a flat top, and put a Magpul UBR 1st gen on it, 
it's scoped with a Cabelas Mark AR scope now,  but may switch that out to a Leupold Mark AR type, 
it still has it's original barrel 

I need to sort it out,  load wise,  even with my diminished skills (no practice, no shooting for a long time) I know it (and I ) can do better , once we become accustomed to each other  Big smile






Back to Top
lyman1903 View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: August 12 2018
Location: Beach VA,
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lyman1903 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2021 at 6:41am
re barrels, 

my first gun for SR was a standard A2, with a button rifled SS heavy  Barrel from SGW, 
SGW did a fine job with barrels back in the day, 

I put maybe 1500 rounds of ball (M193) thru it, then started reloading with 52's (no much) and 69 SMK's

the gun shot tight,  if I did my stuff I could get an honest 3/4 MOA in sitting and prone, 

then suddenly,  1.5 MOA,,  
figured maybe I had a bad day,  shot a match a month or so later and got the same, 

then the next it was a 2MOA gun, in some practice,, 

I found my old M16 throat gage and it swallowed it, 

practically a smooth bore for the first couple inches, , 

I was amazed at how the wear, which was done gradually over time,  did not affect accuracy at first, 

so that gun was rebarreled


Back to Top
britrifles View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 03 2018
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 2969
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2021 at 12:52pm
 Day two of the Spring Classic Matches at Talladega.  

Winds were 15 to 20 across the range, right to left.  Gusting to 25 mph. Opposite direction of yesterday.  And, as luck would have it, I was on the other end of the firing line today, so no shelter from the berm on the windward side of the range.  In the standing position, my cross hairs were moving all over the target, a sudden gust would blow the aiming point right off the target.  I’m surprised I kept all 20 shots on the target...my approach was to pull the trigger when I saw the cross hairs enter the black.  Even then, I got a 5 on one shot...

Got caught in Prone Rapid at 300 yards, the wind eased during my first string (60 seconds) and didn’t see it.  A nice tiny 1 MOA group, but it was on the right edge of the 10 ring with a few 9’s.  

Slow Prone was interesting!  Needed 5 MOA right to correct for wind, the guys on the east end sheltered by the berm only needed 2 MOA.  The changing wind strength made it tough.  

So, there’s all my “excuses” for ending up with a mediocre score of 746-8x (out of 800 possible).  Of course, my shooting bud won the match, he usually does, he was on the other end of the firing line, and scored a 788-30x.  

Tomorrow is the M1 and No. 4 GSM Match.  

 

Back to Top
Zed View Drop Down
Special Member
Special Member
Avatar
Donating Member

Joined: May 01 2012
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 4180
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2021 at 10:05am
Sounds like your having fun, despite the pour wind conditions.
Best of luck with the next round!
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.