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How Equipment Accuracy Affects the Bottom Line

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britrifles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2021 at 4:06pm
Well, the Talladega Spring matches are over for me.  

Today, i shot in the M1 Garand Match and my No. 4 in the Vintage Military Rifle Match.  

I did ok in the M1 match, placed second.  Got beat out by one point.  But I smoked him in X ring count.  That new Krieger barrel is shooting great.  It was the highest score I’ve recorded with the M1 in a match.

My No. 4 was a different story.  In prone slow fire, I was hammering the a 10 and X ring, and after the 6th shot in the X ring, i did something really stupid.  I looked back over my shoulder and said to the range officer who was scoring for me, “these Brit Rifles shoot good, don’t they?”  I then realized, that was a dumb thing to do.  I put the rifle back into my shoulder and took up on the first stage on the trigger as the sights came onto the target and pulled the shot off accidentally.  Well, you idiot I thought.  I figured I had just lost 10 points.  But, it registered a 5 at 6:00, in the largest score ring on the SR target.  Lesson learned.



My prone rapid was sloppy after that stupid mistake.  Standing slow was OK. 

I somehow managed to shoot a Gold score with the No. 4, but with not a single point to spare. 

It was still a fun week and great to see all the guys.  We had quite a few who travelled from all over the country to shoot in this match.  

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Zed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 1:49am
Thats excellent. You must be happy with the Garand!
 But such a shame that you bunged that one shot with the No4. At least you know exactly why it's in the 5 ring. Frustrating maybe; but it would be more so if you didn't know why it was in there!

I doubt we'll be getting any competitions this year. That's a real bummer!
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 4:33am
Thank you Zed.  

They were pretty cautious with the COVID protocols.  Every second firing point was closed, so we were spaced apart by about 20 feet.  We had to wear masks at all times except when shooting. 

I’m very pleased with the M1, it’s shooting about as good as my No. 4 now.  Out of 30 shots (10 each in Prone slow, prone rapid and standing slow), 10 were in the X ring.  

My shooting bud set a new Talladega match record with his Modern Military Rifle (AR), scoring a 296/300.  10 points higher than my M1 score.  That’s going to be tough to catch up to. 

If you guys want a challenge, try shooting the Virtual Match on the SR target in the standing off hand position.  No leaning up against a post or side of the bench either.  Then try and do this in 15 to 20 mph winds.  When I first started competing, my standing scores were in the low 70’s.  I’d usually have one shot a clean miss.  That’s 10 points down right there.  I’ve seen my shooting bud clean the SR target (all in the 10 ring) in the standing position.  Matches are won and lost in the standing position. 





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 7:01am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

Thank you Zed.  

If you guys want a challenge, try shooting the Virtual Match on the SR target in the standing off hand position.  No leaning up against a post or side of the bench either.  Then try and do this in 15 to 20 mph winds.  When I first started competing, my standing scores were in the low 70’s.  I’d usually have one shot a clean miss.  That’s 10 points down right there.  I’ve seen my shooting bud clean the SR target (all in the 10 ring) in the standing position.  Matches are won and lost in the standing position. 

Many,many years ago at the ripe old age of 18-19. I spent just over a month in an Advanced Marksmanship Program that taught shooting in limited visibility with varying weather conditions, stationary and moving targets. I was also taught On the Fly range estimating that included known and unknown firing distances after the target was acquired. During the LRPF portion of the program, I was taught how to use anything and everything at my disposal to aide with the accuracy of the shot. One of our challenges was to successfully stop a mechanical rabbit in a full run from three different shooting positions before the bunny made it to his safe box. 
Do the Talladega matches have anything similar to what I described?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lyman1903 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 8:35am
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

Sounds like your having fun, despite the pour wind conditions.
Best of luck with the next round!

^^^ what Zed said,


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lyman1903 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 8:39am
CMP/NRA service rifle matches are all fixed  or known distance, , stationary targets, 

no running bunnies
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 8:45am
Originally posted by lyman1903 lyman1903 wrote:

CMP/NRA service rifle matches are all fixed  or known distance, , stationary targets, 

no running bunnies
What a shame then. The CMP/NRA service rifle matches would certainly benefit from offering the program i mentioned...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 10:34am
I’ve shot in IDPA pistol matches with moving targets and also shot out of moving vehicles.  Definitely a challenge. 

The CMP (and DCM before that) and NRA military type matches have not really changed much since they began in the 1870’s.  They were intended to encourage marksmanship in the civil population and culminated in a yearly National Match in Creedmoor (later at Camp Perry) with the National Service Rifle.  The targets and rifles have changed, but the the 200/300/600 Yard National course has been around for a long time. 






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 10:46am
I was one of the first round inductees into the course I mentioned when it was initiated in mid 1987 at Ft.Benning...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 11:21am
Some shooters find the Match Rules very annoying, and some of them do seem rather pointless.  But, they are intended to ensure no one has a technical advantage in equipment (although that’s not really possible as some rifles do shoot better than others).  The rules control the configuration of the rifle so people don’t start modifying them into match rifles.  They used to issue ammunition at the National Matches for years and stopped when the .30-06 M72 Ball was used up.  

The idea is to make it based on skill of shooting in the 4 basic positions.  It’s by no means “advanced” shooting skills such as what you described.  But, believe me, it is very competitive and we strive for that perfect score that has never (to my knowledge) been attained.   Perfect meaning a score of 800-80x across the National Course of fire.  All 80 shots in the X ring.  To do that, you would have to hold 1.5 MOA in standing and sitting rapid fire and 1 MOA in prone rapid fire at 300 yards and 1 MOA prone slow fire at 600 yards, with a Service Rifle.  It would take superhuman skill with some serious luck to pull that off. 






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 1:02pm
Here’s how cool those electronic targets at the TMP are.  You can go online and watch the match, it will display all the targets and the hits as they happen in real time.  I watched the second day of the GSM match this afternoon from my back porch at my cabin (GSM - Garand, Springfield and Vintage Military Rifle Match).  

Despite my blunder yesterday with the No. 4, I managed to hold on to my first place in the Vintage Military Match.  Almost got bumped off 2nd place on in the M1 match, but I had a healthy X count.  2nd place doesn’t count for anything, but at least I know the M1 is finally shooting well.  





Obviously, I’ve become a match junkie, you have to be to sit there watching 20 targets on a screen and watch the bullet impacts appear (Virtually that is).  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 1:24pm
Where can you find the online video?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 2:19pm
I used to shoot "full-bore" under the old I.S.U. rules.
Then the I.O.C. Took over & things like the exact color of the sling became an issue.
That was when I left because it was just politics.
I liked Shooting Match when it was just (kind of) mano a mano.
After the change I lost interest because when you aggregated & averaged your score was always the same.
Why bother anymore just give me my average. (aggregated over 3 years.)?
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

Where can you find the online video?

Here is the link.  


Have to know when there is a match being run.  I think tomorrow is the last day. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 5:46pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

I used to shoot "full-bore" under the old I.S.U. rules.
Then the I.O.C. Took over & things like the exact color of the sling became an issue.
That was when I left because it was just politics.
I liked Shooting Match when it was just (kind of) mano a mano.
After the change I lost interest because when you aggregated & averaged your score was always the same.
Why bother anymore just give me my average. (aggregated over 3 years.)?

Sham, the CMP matches are not nearly that stringent. And each match is its own event.  I really encourage it, members who live in the US and are interested in improving their shooting skill should look up CMP GSM Matches in their area.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2021 at 9:44pm
Back to the original topic.
I have a M700P that I keep and maintain to the highest of standards and it is my go to target rifle.  It is good for nothing else other than a target rifle.
I also have a great all weather Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle that is my go to hunting rig. Both rifles are as accurate as can be expected directly from the factories they were manufactured at and can without fail,  deliver repeatedly MOA groups when the end user does his part. 
My Savage No4 that is currently in the guise of the L8A5T was purpose built the fill the gap between both rifles mentioned above.
It will never be a target rifle but, it can and does come close. It will never be used as a hunting rifle unless absolutely necessary.  So what is its intended purpose then? To make me work that much harder at maintaining my level of accuracy.  Every time I am at the range with it, I learn something new about its effectiveness between 100 and 200 yards and what I can do as the operator to improve upon that effectiveness. The accuracy of the weapons system is only as good as it will be when kept it top condition.  That goes for the person operating the weapons system as well...
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