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Identification and Serial Numbers

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Henderblur View Drop Down
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    Posted: November 05 2018 at 3:48pm
     he!!o, I recently bought a No.4 Mk 1/2 Lee Enfield and am having some trouble interpreting some of the markings. I've read a lot of material online on identifying Enfields, but I've gotten very few answers regarding this one in particular. 
Here is the No.4 Mk. 1/2 and what i believe to be the new serial number that was given to it during the /2 upgrade This serial number matches the one on the band with a screw that was added with the trigger upgrade, if I'm not mistaken. Along with this It seems to be a faint 'T' to the left of the serial number, which I am not sure of the meaning. I know some of the rifles that were chosen to become snipers were marked with a 'T', but I'm not convinced this is an example of that. Of course if I'm wrong please tell me.



This picture shows a second set of letters and numbers to the left of the first markings shown. I have come to think that this may be the original serial number, but I have not seen this formatting in my research yet. It reads "TR 1953". This may be related to the /2 upgrade. I'm really not sure about much of this and I would greatly appreciate anyone knowledge or input on these markings.  



Here is the picture of the serial number on the band and the back of the bolt.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maxwell smart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2018 at 10:10pm
This conversion has markings consistent with having been done by BSA in 1953.   

The markings used by BSA are different to those used by ROF Fazakerley, which also did conversions. 

It seems possible that the BSA conversions were done for non-British Government contracts, and that previous markings were scrubbed and new serials were applied.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 2:03am
In the second picture those circular marks are Maltby inspection stamps. So, your rifle went through the Maltby factory at some point in its life as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 4:00am
I don't see a serial number on the rear of the bolt! is it marked elswhere?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Henderblur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 7:17am
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

I don't see a serial number on the rear of the bolt! is it marked elswhere? 

That is something I was curious about too. I saw that most bolts have the serial number there, but I can't find it anywhere on the bolt. The bolt does have other markings that make it seem genuine, but it does looks different than other bolts I've seen, so maybe it was modified or replaced in the /2 upgrade. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Henderblur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 7:20am
Originally posted by maxwell smart maxwell smart wrote:

This conversion has markings consistent with having been done by BSA in 1953.   

The markings used by BSA are different to those used by ROF Fazakerley, which also did conversions. 

It seems possible that the BSA conversions were done for non-British Government contracts, and that previous markings were scrubbed and new serials were applied.

Thank you for that information that definitely clears stuff up about the conversion.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 8:22am
That is not a TR 1953. That is a FTR 1953 electro stenciled over the original Maltby markings. FTR= Factory Thorough Repair. 1953 is when the rifle was rebuilt/repaired to the Mk1/2 configuration.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 8:31am
Is there a big screw  through the wood just in front if the magazine? The butt socket looks like it was scrubbed and renumbered. India rebuild perhaps. It is definitely not a sniper rifle by the way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Henderblur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 8:41am
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

Is there a big screw  through the wood just in front if the magazine? The butt socket looks like it was scrubbed and renumbered. India rebuild perhaps. It is definitely not a sniper rifle by the way.

Thanks for the info. That being FTR does make sense, I looked closer and the 'F' was covered by the stamp, but it is actually still there. 

There isn't a screw in front of the magazine, but there is one directly above the trigger which I believe was a part of the conversion. 

On the bolt I found this marking. The arrow I think I read was a marking that meant it was indeed a non-government export and that there was often a letter near it denoting the country, but if that was the case I don't know what 'M' could be.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote paddyofurniture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 9:22am
The "M" is the boot head size.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 1:17pm
..I think he means "Bolt head size"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 1:38pm
Yes the "hung trigger" of the Mk2 couldn't use the "strap" previously used to hold the rear of the forend & was replaced by a through bolt instead.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 9:10pm
nice mk 2 conversion with some interesting history i think , i like the worn look of the finish , it gives it character , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Henderblur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 9:51pm
Thanks for the all the info and comments. The only big mystery really left now is where it was sent after the conversion. Does anyone know if that is something that is able to be figured out?

The bolt is also peculiar to me. The flat edges don't really match what I've seen on other rifles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maxwell smart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2018 at 10:49pm
I think the bolt head markings might actually be "M47", with the "4" being very lightly struck. 

No 4 bolt heads were sized by numbers, not letters. I think I can just make out the "0" size numeral on the top edge of the bolthead.


 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2018 at 7:15am
The bolt head size number was on the outside face of the lug, not the top. This is the "0" on my No5.

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