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It has no history?!?!
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Goosic View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 14 2023 at 12:22pm
In a recent post, someone had made a comment that they would rather have a beat up Enfield rifle that saw action and has a history instead of an Enfield rifle that has been hidden in a closet that has no history. 
While that may hold true to some, the fact remains that there had been a recent discovery a few years back of thousands of Enfield rifles that were found in an underground storage area in the city of Paris. These rifles and their accessories that were apart of "Operation Carpetbagger'' to supply the French Resistance,  were intercepted and confiscated by German controlled Préfecture Police when these rifles were air-dropped into France in mid 1944.
While my rifle and many others like it never saw actual battlefront combative action, it was and is apart of British History nonetheless and I am very proud to own a very fine example of that history.

     
I removed the scope assembly and put the original MkII ladder sight back on it. I fired it enough to know it is as accurate as it was the day it left the Maltby Factory and then put on a bomber for France...
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Shamu View Drop Down
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Collectors are a law unto themselves.
For example the most common mark of the No4 is the Mk1* from Long Branch or Savage-Stevens.
They're also somewhat downgraded IMO, with simpler fittings & so on. Yet they command a Premium over all the other factories outputs!
Then there's the (don't get me started) "Irish Contracts". It was a well-defined batch with known serial numbers & on reality nothing special about it. But that's been changed to "anything that ever got a whiff of  the barmaid's apron" somehow related to "The Auld Sod". & become a higgley-piggly mess of SMLES, No4s & anything else that even smelt a shamrock. Evil Smile
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Collectors are one thing Shamu.  A person who will stand steadfast to a belief that unless that Enfield rifle actually killed a German then it has no history, is another thing all its own.
History is what you make of it and take away from. 
Every antiquated Enfield rifle owner or collector secretly wishes that his rifle killed as many of the enemy as possible but, there is a high possibility that many of those rifles only killed the occasional farm animal or nothing at all. Operation Carpetbagger is apart of history and the weapons that are associated with it are apart of history regardless of if it saw combat or not. Zed's No4 saw actual combat, mine unfortunately, was captured and did not see the light of day until roughly 4 years ago. The uptick is that my rifle still retains an inspectors mark written with a pencil inside the barrel channel from a Maltby Boffin 78 years ago.  That in and of itself is history...
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I’m a firm believer that you should buy the rifle, and not the story.  Very few of these rifles have actual documented evidence of any notable Service use.  I’d much rather have a pristine No. 4 than one that was supposedly carried all thru France, Belgium, and Germany and has a shot out barrel and sloppy action. 

I probably should have bought one of those recently sold Resistance rifles, but I knew I would shoot it until it too had a shot out barrel…
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Goosic View Drop Down
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There are two of them left at the gun store I frequent. One of the Maltby rifles is mis-stamped No4Mk1*. 
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Funny how some people think about battle rifles. The Smle for instant, if you bought an unmolested one with some history, ie, Canadian, Auzzi or Brit provenance, it most likely never killed a Hun but rather fell to the ground after the soldier went over the top at the blow of a whistle and was machine gunned to death.
Either way, all the service rifles have a bloody and horrible history, instruments of war, designed for one purpose only.......
I`ve never owned a 98 Mauser nor will I ever, only because there`s a high probability it was used to assassinate innocent civilians
If anything Gossic, yours is clean and void of conscience, so to speak. I`d be proud to own such a piece of history, who cares what others think or say.
Cheers

shoot em if you got em
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"I’m a firm believer that you should buy the rifle, and not the story."
THIS^^^^ is my A#1rule when buying!

I have a 1914 BSA made ShtE (SMLE) That was FTRd at some time in the 40's.
It probably went through not just one, but 2 world wars.
I'll bet it saw some action, but as there are no real blow-by-blow records I'll never know for sure.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Goosic, I believe the "PP" (and number) stamped in those rifles stands for "Préfecture de Police" and not "Paris Police".
One thing is for sure; they all left France with more secrecy than when they arrived! first thing we heard about them was when they went on sale in the USA.
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Being air dropped in to a Occupied Contry, impounded by the Leftist Police, and held in storage for all these years. Sounds like history to me. Wish I had the funds to obtain one. 
Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.
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I think you're short-changing the Enfield line by saying that.
Worldwide since the 1890s they have been involved in probably more military actions than any other weapon worldwide with the exception of The Roman Gladius & Peter / Paul Mausers turnbolts.

Its not "just killing Germans" at all, it's more about building an Empire (whether you like one or not) & keeping probably 1/2 the world in some kind of order & free from predatory locals, natives & creatures!
That's the history, not who did, or didn't "Turn 'is steel 'elmet into a coal scuttle"!
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Originally posted by paddyofurniture paddyofurniture wrote:

Being air dropped in to a Occupied Contry, impounded by the Leftist Police, and held in storage for all these years. Sounds like history to me. Wish I had the funds to obtain one. 
The air-drop is one of the reasons this rifle has history behind it. The other reason is that this rifle is a time capsule that shows all the stamps, inspection marks, and the parts that make up this rifle as it left the factory floor in May of 1944...
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Shamu: It was the person who made the comment that unless it saw action then it has no history behind it that is short changing the rifle and its lineage. I just used my rifle as a prime example of how it was apart of an actual documented event. 
Alot of new-comers to Lee-Enfield rifles are not fully aware of the lineage of the Lee-Enfield and what it took to get where it is now. That in and of itself is history. 
I recently was introduced to a fellow who is very adamant about there being no monetary value in an Enfield that has been wrapped up in wax paper since 1955 because no one used it for its intended purpose. Another person chimed in that all the history was erased on certain rifles when it got a Golden State Arms Santa Fe Division Roll Stamp put on the barrel.
The history of the Lee-Enfield has alot more to do with its research and development than what it was designed to do IMHO...
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Please put me in touch with that fellow!
I'll give 'im "tree fiddy cash money" for it, Hug
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Points: 8203 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2023 at 8:53pm
These are the pencil marks I was referring to. 78 year old Maltby Boffin scribbles...
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I’ve had a few rifles myself with pencil marks under the hand guard, the earliest being a 1914 Lithgow and a 1912 BSA.
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Points: 8203 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2023 at 5:59am
Shamu referenced the Enfield lineage and how it came to be but there is more to it than that. Again, I can only use my Maltby No4Mk1 as an example. To get to the final stage off of the assembly line, it took the assistance of 8 separate entities making certain rifle parts aside from their normal line of business to assist in the "War Effort." People who made Home Furnishings, Fountain Pens, Cutlery, Jewelry, Sporting Goods, and Sewing Products all came together and supplied the Enfield rifle manufacturer with the necessary materials to create my particular No4Mk1 rifle. There's your History right there. In plain sight for everyone to see. 
So, let us now take a small trip together. Sometime in May of 1944 my No4Mk1 left the Burrough of Rotherham and journeyed to a RAF aerodrome and loaded onto a RAF Bomber to be "Air-Dropped" into France somewhere at night to supply the French Marquis. It was captured by Préfecture de Police and stored in an underground storage vault and basically forgotten about for almost 75 years. It was eventually found and relocated to Martinsburg West Virginia and then shipped to a gun store owner in Phoenix Arizona. In early 2023, I drove 4.5 miles to the gun store, purchased the rifle and drove the 4.5 mile back to my residence. The following weekend I fired that Maltby No4Mk1.
History is what you make of it...https://youtu.be/5RswoSp8p2U?feature=shared
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