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Kindly identify

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Ayk View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 26 2017 at 10:39am
Please identify

Is it an original Lee enfield or a fake?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2017 at 7:56pm
ive never seen that marking , i suspect its kyber pass but you have given us very little to go on , BSA made a lot of trade guns and contract rifles along the way , we dont even know what model mark is on this , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ayk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2017 at 10:00pm
Thank you so much for replying. In fact you have hit nail right on the head. Let me fill you in. It is claimed that this rifle is from the armoury of king Amanullah of Afghanistan. Used in previous afghan wars. Let me post more pictures.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2017 at 4:04am
We really need to see photos of the complete rifle; to see what model it is. Then some close up photos of other details and markings.
Seeing as you are in Pakistan, it could well be a fake. But maybe engraving of the mosque and flags etc could have been requested on a private purchase; although I doubt it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ayk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2017 at 4:10am
I have already posted full pix of the gun but i guess moderator is screening my message. It will defintely explain the sitaution better. I really appreciate your input so far. Looking forward to hearing from on this topic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2017 at 12:32pm
There were a number of foreign contracts for Enfield rifles from time to time. Thailand and Iraq comes to mind but there may have been more. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2017 at 3:11pm
I think we have a little confusion here between those "legit" rifles sent to the Khyber pass area & the bootleg knock-off copies made there?
This:


would be the correct crest for king Amanullah
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2017 at 7:38pm
that is a mkI rifle of the SMLE version , it has some really interesting parts on it , they are either original vintage bits or very good copies , the bolt head , the rear sight , the volleys , rear handguard and sight protector , i cannot see the cutoff , 

nifty find , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ayk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2017 at 8:19pm
Thank you for your response and it does make sense. So please advise shall i buy the gun or leave it as it is doubtful because of its origin? The condition of the gun is good, the rifling is good, wood stock has aged gracefully and bolt assembly shows natural wear. I have even fired 5 rounds on it at a range of 200m. The group was tight and hit the 8 mark. With all these, shall i drop as a fake?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ayk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 28 2017 at 8:25pm
Many thanks for finding the real crest. Just for discussion sake, dont the two crests look close enough? The gun manufacturer finesse in engraving the crest in a crude manner at that point in time is understandable. But the question arises, was BSA manfacturing custom guns for the then Afghan government?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2017 at 5:17am
One of the ways to positively ID a Khyber pass fake is little details in the markings. Many are copied without understanding them by makers who have no knowledge of the scripts used.
I can't be 100% positive, but it is enough to raise suspicions.
Are there other markings & can you photograph them?
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2017 at 10:11am
Looks to be a legit British made arm.

A private contract from BSA.
BSA never sold directly to the public or foreign government, they always went through brokers and dealers. Anybody with the money could purchase as many as they wanted. The trick was to find the right broker or brokers. 

So could BSA rifles could end up in service in Afganistan? Yes.

Research the Citadel Arsenal, Kabul. Some arms of their manufacture wear a similar crest.

I would not let that one get way! But that is what the fakes are supposed you do.

My RED FLAG is up......

The right side of the butt socket wrist is marked as would be a commercial arm, yet the left receiver ring wears a military proof marking. ??? It might be in the wrong place for that marking too.
No Lee Speed acknowledgement markings, which pegs it post 1914. The proof marks should be Birmingham Proof House and not King George military markings. 
We would need to see pics of the stamped markings on both sides of the barrel with the rear hand guard removed to tell you more.

Likely that this is a genuine British made rifle with the military markings scrubbed and embellish with these new ones and a story of being from a King's private army etc. Maybe the story is legit and it was remarked at the Kabul Armoury?

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2017 at 11:10am
This certainly interesting. Depending on price; it may be worth buying anyway. You could always hang it on the wall if it's not original. Worth looking at in a bit more detail that's for sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2017 at 2:01pm
Yes it might not be an outright fake, but it could be a standard SMLE "tarted up" to look more appealing after routine service in the theater.

This is where serious in depth research from reputable sources counts. Google the crest & why its important that it has the surrounding laurel wreath, I think its relevant. That would seem to be the crest of the 1928 Afghani air force!
(scroll down, its towards the bottom)

http://www.artiklar.z-bok.se/Afghanistan-1.html
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2017 at 7:12pm
as said , depending on price , i would scarf it up , you say you have shot it - the worst is over 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pukka Bundook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2017 at 5:50am
I believe this is a good legitimate rifle, and well worth buying.
 
The Kabul arsenal marks vary quite a lot.  
See this thread for variations in the Kabul markings;
 
 
I am sure on that forum there are better threads, as I have seen them, but don't have time to do a search right now.
 
Very nice rifle I think!
 
Richard.
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